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#252391 - 05/10/06 01:36 AM Kata groundfighting
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
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Loc: Salem, OR
What exactly is the groundfighting like in karate kata? I doubt it's much at all like BJJ so is it fighting against another person on the ground, or someone standing up? And is it more striking and dirty fighting or grappling with holds and locks and things?
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#252392 - 05/10/06 01:48 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
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There is no groundfighting in kata. Don't get confused.
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#252393 - 05/10/06 01:50 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
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I've heard a lot of people on talk about getting their groundfighting out of kata. Also, if i'm not mistaken Iain Abernethy talks about groundfighting in kata. What do ya make uf that?
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#252394 - 05/10/06 01:56 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
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I make that he is a little confuckled about it.

Do you see people laying on the ground when doing kata?

Sure,there are some things that could potentially be done on the ground that will work.I do have my 'horizontal bunkai' ,but that is not the intention of kata IMHO.

I think most would agree with me.

We did have a poster for a while 'Sanchin' who argued that sanchin kata was farmer burns wrestling,lol.
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#252395 - 05/10/06 02:02 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
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Well yeah, I mean I agree, kata doesn't have any real groundfighting from what I can tell, I wasj ust curious.

Was he serious about that whole snachin kata farmer burns wrestling thing? That's funny, sanchin kata can certainly have some locking techniques and grabs, but full wrestling, yeah right.
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#252396 - 05/10/06 02:17 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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You can see in kata whatever your imagination will let you.

Some see wrist grappling to music and some see wrestling. I see dumb people.

I believe sanchin really is just a conditioning kata,but you could see some things in there if you want to,my instructor does.
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#252397 - 05/10/06 02:25 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
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Registered: 08/05/04
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Loc: Salem, OR
To each his own, and whatever works.
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#252398 - 05/10/06 04:01 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: Stormdragon]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I see no little/groundfighting in kata, the nearest is when we drop to one knee.

However there are plenty of techniques that can work if were on the ground but thats just because the body is the body, on feet or on ground.

Need to remember karates possible 'origional' intention, that of defending oneself against and untrained agressor, the ground is not where we want to be therefore we train to not go to the ground.

this is greatly emphasised in the practise of tegumi, an aspect of the art that is rarely taught/understood. Of course with our locks we are happy to imobilise an opponent to the ground, just not get tied up there.
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#252399 - 05/10/06 08:11 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: shoshinkan]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
In the Isshinryu version of Kusanku kata, there are obvious grounding techniques, where the opponent is downed and pinned in the process. There are several different methods used for grounding them too, depending on the stylistic understanding of the techniques.

Of course it depends on what one considers ground fighting.
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#252400 - 05/10/06 08:57 AM Re: Kata groundfighting [Re: Victor Smith]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
LOL Victor, of course im using the term in relation to rolling around on the floor in a continued fasion ala BJJ etc etc

One of my projects is to continue to work out effective methods of pinning without making myself immobile, far from groundfighting.
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