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#252313 - 07/02/07 02:19 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: jpoor]
Jim_Judy Offline
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
And how about someone in the Know lay out the magical mystery signs that qualify a preemptive strike for all us plebs...
I'm sure no one would like getting arrested because the grand advise off of the Internet was insufficiently informative.

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#252314 - 07/02/07 02:30 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Jim_Judy]
MattJ Offline
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Jim -

I'm not sure that you will find those signs will be the same for everyone. The question of pre-emptive strike legitimacy (if that is what you are questioning) can be addressed on this thread here, as well:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15906601
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#252315 - 07/02/07 02:55 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: MattJ]
Jim_Judy Offline
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No, I agree with the legitimate use of Preemp, from simple assault up to justification of lethal force.

However... the law is a little different everywhere, & it isn't a good idea to be pushing this idea without at least thoroughly informing folks to get well versed in their local laws before they start thinking that this line isn't a mile wide.
I would never push this idea of "striking first" without laying down some firm groundrules, and I mean etched in stone. Then, it's up to the masses to supplement with local deviation in law.

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#252316 - 07/02/07 05:15 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
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Quote:

I would never push this idea of "striking first"




i thought a 'swing' and a 'strike' were not the same in your definition; and did you not open your contributions to this thread with the phrase 'strike first'?

It must get awful confusing keeping up with yourself when you have such a conflicting and inconsistent nature.
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#252317 - 07/02/07 06:42 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Cord]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Quote:

I am in agreement. I think allowing an aggressor the first move can work to the defenders advantage if the defender has trained hard enough to get the skills.
One example being
It would seem that a lot of right hand punches thrown by the average so called street fighter type leaves them totaly open and in the main off balance.
If the fight is recorded then allowing the aggressor the first move would also show who started the fight.
Jude




Jude, Not all instigators of violence are right handed. Please define 'average streetfighter type'

There are clear definitions regarding 'self defence' and the laws of legal engagement allow for an assessment that your wellbeing is threatened before any physical attack is encountered. Someone continuing to persue aggression as you attempt to make distance between you and them, someone making earnest verbal threat to harm or kill you, someone who invades personal space in a threatening posture. All very basic examples where you are legally perfectly entitled to spark them out before a physical attack begins.
Or, you can take your chances and hope they are right handed and do what you expect of them.





Hi Cord.
I dont think I said all instigaters were right handed.
Average street fighter ? My thoughts on the average street fighter means the type who throws punches off balance,hits with the wrong part of their hands, normaly have busted knuckles, headbutts using a bad technique, attempts to get a person on the ground to kick them and is normaly wide open and untrained and more than likely have other strange traits specific to the individual.

Your description of scenarios where a person can strike first? Perhaps it might be that way in some cases but I personaly dont trust British law. If I were in a situation where it was recorded I would like things fairly clear should it go to court. More than likely that would be difficult but that is the way I would like it.

Readers in general.
Just a small point asked in a pleasent way.
Dear Sirs.
Is there any chance that some of you guys might(no one specific) leave the verbal sparring that is off topic to a different thread specific to verbal sparring if one exists?
I think this thread is interesting and it would be a shame if it was shut down.

Just asking in a pleasent manner.

Jude

edited ti fix quote


Edited by MattJ (07/02/07 07:35 PM)

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#252318 - 07/02/07 06:48 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Jim_Judy]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

And how about someone in the Know lay out the magical mystery signs that qualify a preemptive strike for all us plebs...
I'm sure no one would like getting arrested because the grand advise off of the Internet was insufficiently informative.




Hi

Isnt plebs a Northern British term?
Sir.

Could I ask that we keep this thread minus insults to poor plebs?
I know some nice plebs.
Back to the topic.
I dont think there are any written guidelines to pre-emtive strikes in any law books? Might be to the whim of the police?

I havent found any guidelines but there again I am not legaly trained.
Jude


Edited by jude33 (07/02/07 06:59 PM)

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#252319 - 07/02/07 10:00 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: jude33]
Jim_Judy Offline
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Actually, the Plebians, or Plebs, were the commoners in ancient Rome.

Plebians & the Patricians (the aristocracy)

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#252320 - 07/02/07 10:10 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
So, I try to conform with the local vernacular & you still want to bust my balls?

Just ban me now, if you can't keep it on topic.


(That's not my smiley thumb btw)


Edited by Jim_Judy (07/02/07 10:10 PM)

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#252321 - 07/02/07 10:38 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: jude33]
Jim_Judy Offline
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Jude33,
MattJ posted this thread from the Self Defense section.
web page
Look right at the end of the thread, some good stuff from Devil or whatever. A good general rule that I use is right along the lines of justifying lethal force (ability, opportunity, and jeopardy), just toned down for non-lethal issues of course. It's really up to someone that is actually interested using such a tactic to look into local laws, because they really do vary. If it is something that you're really interested in, look into local law, maybe talk to a cop or a lawyer that you trust, & get some folks from your school or club involved. I've seen trained guys(for years), that freeze up when faced with real intent and a little verbal abuse. I think that this kind of thing is a must for being able to use preemptive force at the most prudent times.
I agree with McSensei, things are not always as they seem and you shouldn't start wailing on folks just because you get nervous.


Edited by Jim_Judy (07/02/07 10:59 PM)

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#252322 - 07/02/07 10:44 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: Jim_Judy]
Jim_Judy Offline
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
I would suggest that most anyone interested in this tactic (preemptive force) to simply look up info on Geoff Thompson's Fence.
Most anyone that trains Traditional Martial Arts can adapt one of their high receiving postures to this. It really does work well. Just train it.

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