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#252233 - 05/09/06 09:38 PM When to strike?
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
I am in an interesting situation right now...

I am sort of wondering, I have somebody telling he will kick my *** and that he will get friends to help kick my***, yet they actually do nothing (except throw insults left and right)

now I wonder, when is it right to atack? If he is truly planning on fighting with me, why delay it? Why wait for his friends, why fight on his terms?

It seems these verbal insults are just very... cheap.

Now I know physical violence should only be used in self defence but I almost feel like the only way to prevent fighting many is to fight one and make an example of him.

If I do this then I would be going through a huge moral dillema though. Because he might just be a cocky guy trying to impress his girlfriend+friends.

So my questions are, when to fight? When to throw the first strike? When does verbal abuse/threats escalate to a level to where physical violence is the only way to stop this pest.

Is it ever right to throw the first strike? If I don't take out this thug now, then would I have to deal with him and his "friends" later?

If I do hurt this guy, even though he verbally provoked me... would I be as guilty as him?

If I do not take him out now, he might very well pick on another person who is less capable of defending himself, so maybe beating him is the answer.

Since these insults/threats will continue can somebody tell me what I should do or what you would do if you were in my situation. The most important question I have is when do I have the right to atack?
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

#252234 - 05/10/06 12:53 AM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
When someone steps inside of your territorial bubble (within reach) in a threatening manner you should act,quickly. However,you should do everything possible to avoid this from happening including backing up.
Good luck.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#252235 - 05/10/06 03:19 AM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
Sorin Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
From the way you describe the guy, he very possibly could just be all talk. I forsee two things happening if you start a fight with him (regardless of what he's said).

1. He gets really PO'd and really does get his friends to help beat the crap out of you.

2. He runs away crying and might leave you alone, but this type of person typically doesn't learn from his mistakes, he will just pick someone else who won't fight back.

1 is obvously not a desirable situation.
2, however good it might be for you, won't change anything about him more then likely. (9 times out of 10).

Even if he's shouting at the top of his lungs that he's gonna lay you out, if he doesn't make a move toward you, then I don't think you can legally (in school or out) do anything physical to him.

Also, I don't think I need to remind you of what would happen if you get caught fighting by school or police. (expulsion/arrest)

Always keep a level head and remember words are words, and can't give you a bloody lip.

#252236 - 05/10/06 10:27 AM Re: When to strike? [Re: Sorin]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Just shrug it off and ignore him if possible, I know it's tough but as far as I can tell this kid really is all talk, and is probably very insecure and doubts his own abilities, he needs to try and prove himself, and needs his buddies to help because he is afraid of getting the crap beaten out of him and looking bad.
Don't waste your time with the little jerk. Next time he starts giving you trouble just say whatever, uh huh, and go about your business, and if that doesn't work tell him to screw off. As was stated before, do not fight him unless he comes up and get's within arms reach of you roughly in a hostile and threatening manner and/or makes physical contact with you in a threatening manner and then give him a good stiff shot in the solar plexus with a liberal amount of power and watch him go to his knees, then if he comes at you again slug him in the nose. You want to avoid hitting targets like the face at first because it does more damage, leavs a mess and you get in trouble to, however if the initial attack fails, then bloodying him up a little bit will most likely end the fight and scare away his punk friends. Now that's another thing if his friends decide to jump in. In that case there are several things you can do: Run like hell and scream your head off, or accuse them all of being a bunch of panzies for ganging up on you and tell them to be men and fight one on one(I suggest that one) or start kicking them in pills and punching them in their noses while screaming and yelling at them and raising hell, kick punch elbow knee and poke eyes, creating as much chaos as possible.

Disclaimer, I am a 15 year old guy with testerone and hormones going crazy, my advice may not be the best, but it works for me. You should probably check with the more experienced guys(and gals) on here before taking my advice, good luck.
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

#252237 - 05/10/06 12:04 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
TimBlack Offline

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton

So my questions are, when to fight? When to throw the first strike? When does verbal abuse/threats escalate to a level to where physical violence is the only way to stop this pest.

I think you've answered your own question here - fight when it stops being a pest, and starts being a threat to your safety. You can't win if you start a fight, whatever happens you'll be painted as the bad guy, so don't do it. If he hits you, hit him back. If not, let him get on with it, he'll give up at some point.


Is it ever right to throw the first strike? If I don't take out this thug now, then would I have to deal with him and his "friends" later?

Fight him now, you'll definitely have to deal with his friends later. This ain't the movies, and in real life you don't have 'trophy' fights where the good guy get's left alone - you get revenge beatings. I know it's hard, but in terms of self-defence you just need to turn the other cheek, carry some pepper spray, and if him or his friends try anything, spray 'em - forget your MA skills, because you don't have the legal or pragmatic position to start fighting your way out.


The most important question I have is when do I have the right to atack?

If you have to carefully think about it in order to justify it, you don't have the right. If you do it because you're angry, you don't have the right. If you have no choice, you do have the right. You haven't reached that point until someone swings at you, so don't over think it. I know it's hard, but you've got to bide your time. Good luck
My Workout Log

#252238 - 05/10/06 02:35 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: BrianS]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA

When someone steps inside of your territorial bubble (within reach) in a threatening manner you should act,quickly. However,you should do everything possible to avoid this from happening including backing up.
Good luck.

Ditto what Brian said.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#252239 - 05/11/06 02:51 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Who said you have to strike?! One of those humiliating things a bully can encounter while pushing someone around is being thrown off balance or swept out, flipped etc. Have you ever watched an Aikido demonstration or a similar art that does not require a person to smash someone in the face, it's a beautiful work of art. No one gets hurt to much and the bad guy gets the point. Martial arts can be very violent but it doesn't have to be....think about that, the more you know the less you want to use.
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

#252240 - 05/11/06 04:52 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: schanne]
Revanus Offline

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 21
Loc: No ( r ) way
Everybody have a point here, i'm 16 years old and have been in a lot of situations like this. But like my brother says to me, u just have to live it through. Don't let thugs see that they have an effect on u. Ignore them, let time do it's job and things will go better. If someone looks like they are going to swing at u, walk or run away. If u are backed up in a corner and the only way out is through the thug, shake his hand while saying "hi! nice to see u!". this will surprise the thug and will give u a chance to knee him in the cohonas and run like He**. Or u can go right to the kneeing... that hurts like sh**.
But that's a last option!

C-u l8r allig8or
"Live to win, dare to fall"

#252241 - 05/11/06 06:27 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Pepto:

You are allowed to respond in an completely equal manner to those actions (physical or verbal) taken against you. Now it is certain there are many school policies against any form of physical fighting. Do not fight.

It is certain that verbal threats are not allowed either. Do not trade them.

Find a teacher and talk this situation through.

Never allow a threat so close that it can touch you! If it does then you failed miserably to prevent it becoming that threat. Far away they can look, or do whatever he/they wish... able to touch and you have let it get too close and helped create one part of the problem.

Avoid the avoidable, engage as the very, very last resort.

#252242 - 05/15/06 07:09 PM Re: When to strike? [Re: pepto_bismol]
jliu Offline

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Montville, NJ, USA
If you make a preemptive strike, wouldn't you be guilty under the law?

Its all good and fair if the guy swings first and you defeat him utterly. That's self-defense, and you can't get arrested for that.

But if you know that there's a potentially dangerous person, and you provoke a fight, then thats unexcusable.

If a serial murder that lives next door to you invades your home and is about to kill you, and you kill him first, thats self-defense. But if you know there's a serial murderer next door, and go and kill him, then you're not i n a legally promising situation.

Thats my two cents.
Pain is weakness leaving the body.

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