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#251749 - 05/13/06 02:16 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
theoldone Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 172
Quote:


Now what the individual obtains through this practice, bearing in mind the above concepts, can never be taken from him. It is WON through hard work. Blood, sweat and tears. THAT becomes the individual expression of JKD.




Now, THAT is a beautiful thing.
_________________________
We Are Beautiful, Temporary Patterns

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#251750 - 05/13/06 03:37 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: theoldone]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
It IS a beautiful process. When trained in the manner I have described, you begin to truly develop and "own" your technique. Naturally that will develop even more CONFIDENCE in your technique. Once you have that, you have technique you can actually apply and rely upon.



-John

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#251751 - 05/20/06 02:19 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I agree with most things but I have something to add to the adaptiveness of JKD. Though JKD would definitely lead you to cross train so that you could fighton the ground and such, I would rather think that you can defend yourself against any kind of opponent that is presented to you. So even if you are primarily a striker, you could adapt to a grapplers fighting technique and still defeat him. Of course that totally depends on the person.

Like a Karate artist does not necessarily have to study other arts in order to follow JKD. As long as the artist does not limit himself and adapts in combat he is still JKD in my eyes, even if his techniques/stance/wutever are karate origin.

-Arthur

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#251752 - 06/13/06 11:01 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: IExcalibui2]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
I have a viewpoint here that I think others may disagree with, but having heard the same from Bruce Lee's personal student here it is:

Jeet Kune Do is an individualized martial arts system developed by Mr. Bruce Lee in 1967 for development of and for use by himself. The system has its own definitive stance and techniques, referred to as "tools", used for each perceived type of empty handed fighting. Heavy emphasis is placed on mobility and physical development for functional use.

Each tool developed is designed to be a primary tool used as a weapon in many varied scenarios. There is not a wide array of techniques used in jeet kune do, but knowledge and familiarization with other martial arts systems is encouraged, especially to be able to counter such fighters from other systems.

Instead of working with "forms", perceived as tantamount to a form of classical art or dance, emphasis is placed on the scientific development of "attributes", which include things such as speed, power (by velocity), strength, ease of movement, rhythm, and cadence (mental perception of speed). Sparring is practiced a lot to develop proficiency. When a certain degree of mastery is attained with the sparring exercise, sparring may be practiced against willing participants from other systems in order to expand one's experience.

After immersion in the conditioning, sparring, and expansion phases, the practitioner eventually returns to the practice of the basic primary tools, footwork, and further development of attributes. What was once complex is simple again despite the various forms out there, except you can do it better than most anybody else.

Having said all that about the training process, jeet kune do is still its own system. The same training methods may be employed with pretty much any martial arts system, but to say you "employ" JKD with another system like karate or jujitsu is not entirely correct since the essence of what it is at that point in time is redefined from the tactical system of JKD to the developmental process of JKD. By the same token, mixed martial arts is not JKD.

If you read those volumes compiled by John Little, there is a memo handwritten by Bruce Lee explaining to one of his students that mixing martial arts together is not the same is the simplifying and re-simplifying process of jeet kune do. It even has an algebraic equation on the page describing it.

For example, these days I personally practice a contorted system of defensive tactics used by police, security, and military personnel that uses tools such as compliance holds, basic grappling holds, handcuffing, and weapons, but no striking. This is supplemented by footwork similar to what I practiced in jeet kune do, trapping hands from Wing Chun, grappling methods from jujitsu courses I've taken, but still retains the development of scientific attributes from JKD. I suppose this would constitute a mixed martial arts system, but it is no longer jeet kune do. It does embody the "jeet kune do experience" though if you want to think about it in those terms.

Jeet Kune Do was unique to Bruce Lee in its true sense. Still, there are many things Mr. Lee wrote about during his lifetime that other martial artists can develop and learn from, even if that person's style or system of tactics is totally irrelevant. This is something the whole community of martial arts has definitely benefitted from as a legacy.

In closing I would like to mention something I feel strongly about. Something Mr. Lee told all his students and is in his writings as well is the statement "Jeet Kune Do is just a name. Please don't fuss over it." He felt that by creating a thing that was so dynamic for the time he would be unifying people in martial arts circles, clarifying differences, and coming up with a means for people he knew at the time who were in closed communities in the United States to successfully integrate and become more prosperous.

Since his death in 1973, people have done just that though. I see endless bickering about what jeet kune do really is/was regardless of whether you were personally there to see it or not, which techniques are better, arguments about Mr. Lee's personal life, and countless other things that don't amount to a hill of beans in the real world. Some folks are even exchanging death threats over this kind of crap. This was the main reason I left a jeet kune do school ten years ago.

Some statements Bruce Lee said or wrote included "we all only have two arms and two legs. There are only so many ways we can use them." and "after all, we are all God's children under the sun" (or something like that). Statements like those are sage advice to live by.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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#251753 - 06/13/06 11:24 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: SmithNWessonDo]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Nice synopsis, SNWD.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#251754 - 06/13/06 11:37 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: MattJ]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
Quote:

Nice synopsis, SNWD.




Thank you sir.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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#251755 - 06/19/06 07:08 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: SmithNWessonDo]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Having said all that about the training process, jeet kune do is still its own system.





Thus a "style"?


Quote:


The same training methods may be employed with pretty much any martial arts system, but to say you "employ" JKD with another system like karate or jujitsu is not entirely correct since the essence of what it is at that point in time is redefined from the tactical system of JKD to the developmental process of JKD.





What exactly is the difference, in your opinion, between the tactical system of JKD and the developmental process of JKD?


Quote:


By the same token, mixed martial arts is not JKD.






Why not?


Quote:


If you read those volumes compiled by John Little, there is a memo handwritten by Bruce Lee explaining to one of his students that mixing martial arts together is not the same is the simplifying and re-simplifying process of jeet kune do. It even has an algebraic equation on the page describing it.





I agree that mixing arts together isn't necessarily JKD. Thats akin to cross-training. Of course that isn't MMA either, imo. This is awfully close to being an argument about semantics. There IS however the approach of cross-training and, the training of MMA and in my opinion, JKD.

However, we're really talking more about HOW those arts are practiced than the arts themselves. I don't BELIEVE in "style" or art per se. Any mention of fighting arts being different from each other is really nothing but an illusion. It all comes down to how you train.

So long as you aren't cross-training, how is JKD any different from anything else?


Quote:


For example, these days I personally practice a contorted system of defensive tactics used by police, security, and military personnel that uses tools such as compliance holds, basic grappling holds, handcuffing, and weapons, but no striking. This is supplemented by footwork similar to what I practiced in jeet kune do, trapping hands from Wing Chun, grappling methods from jujitsu courses I've taken, but still retains the development of scientific attributes from JKD. I suppose this would constitute a mixed martial arts system, but it is no longer jeet kune do.





Why is it any different than jeet kune do?


-John

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#251756 - 06/22/06 02:53 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
Quote:

Quote:

Having said all that about the training process, jeet kune do is still its own system.





Thus a "style"?




If you look at it in the sense of the definition I posted, it is a system developed by and for Bruce Lee. For him it was more of a developmental process used to refine his own body and artistic expression and in the process he developed something unique. That system had the name "jeet kune do". In that sense, yes it is a style. It is, however, not stylized in the sense of practicing classical forms or practicing with ancient weaponry that is mostly illegal in the modern world.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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#251757 - 06/22/06 03:23 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
Quote:

Quote:


The same training methods may be employed with pretty much any martial arts system, but to say you "employ" JKD with another system like karate or jujitsu is not entirely correct since the essence of what it is at that point in time is redefined from the tactical system of JKD to the developmental process of JKD.





What exactly is the difference, in your opinion, between the tactical system of JKD and the developmental process of JKD?

Quote:






The "tactical" system of jeet kune do is the root system itself, which employs its own techniques and uses them in a tactical manner against various types of unarmed attacks. The key focus in the execution of attacks is simplification and effectiveness within one to three movements. Indeed, the word "tactical" in context was simply an adjective. Perhaps a better word would be "unique" - the "unique" system of jeet kune do. This is the system Bruce Lee himself practiced.

The tactics of jeet kune do stress simplicity in the number of techniques practiced, direct economy of movement, and development of specific attributes rather than the development of attributes within the confines of a kata (or whichever word is used to describe that). There are also other tactics used in practice that characterize the system such as the five ways of attack: single direct attack, attack by combination, attack by drawing, progressive indirect attack, and hand immobilization attack.

The developmental process is the process of training used in the classroom or personal training environment. This is the development of the individual. The developmental process is the development of the tools and the physical conditioning used in the training.

After the basic tools are learned, the practitioner does move to a stage of expanding horizons, where other things are learned such as complex trapping hands, high kicks, more grappling, and even movements from other systems. It is important, however, to remember these other styles may be used in the process of learning, but they do not become jeet kune do just because you choose to practice with them. Things like Muay Thai and Escrima are great in their own right, but it is not proper to place Bruce Lee's name on their practice or lineage. He had nothing to do with their development. Subsequently, they are not JKD. To place the brand name "JKD" on numerous martial arts actually cheapens their worth, like putting the McDonalds name on mass-produced hamburgers. Many burgers may be out there, but none quite come close to the original.

In summary there is a difference between "jeet kune do" and "using no way as a way and having no limitation as a limitation".
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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#251758 - 06/22/06 03:26 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
[quote
Quote:


By the same token, mixed martial arts is not JKD.






Why not?





That's pretty much summed up in the above posting.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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