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#251789 - 05/07/07 10:26 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Sensei_Kreese]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
Wow.

I'd say Mr. Kreese got it.

Cross the water, burn the boat.
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#251790 - 06/28/07 02:08 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
RoninKurosawa Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Allow me to first say that I am indeed a philosophical person but concerning this issue I think people concentrate too much on philosophy and not enough on science.

People love to over complacate things by making or referenceing some proverb or expression but jkd to me is the polar opposite of those tendencies. Like everyone has already said essentially jkd is about simplicity and also about results, when I say results I mean its not about anything but finding the quickest and most effective ways to beat someone in mortal combat.

Even though Lee majored in philosophy and obviously loved to use his philosophical ability to explain his methods the fact is that jkd is not philosophical at all, its simply like saying ' how can i crush this person in combat in a relatively short amount of time ? '.

jkd to me has never and still is not a style of concrete method of any kind, most of the jkd that is tought is not jkd at all its merely imitateing lee's movements. I believe thats why he ordered his schools to be torn down because people was not practicing jkd that only copied him and did not search and modify it to work best for them selves which is what jkd is also about.

List of key words for jkd to me

Self Discovery ' in combat '
Technique Refinement
Simplicity
Rapid Change ' as in, from being relatively still to suddenly close range to your opponent rapidly attacking him '
Deception ' as in, yin concealing yang and vice versa when you punch with your right hand your left hand is concealed but ready to attack and does unexpectedly, when you attack with your left hand your kick is concealed but potentially there so therefore after the left punch kick, when you kick your elbow is waiting to attack soon after so then after the kick attack violently with your elbows and punches, these all interchange and happen as a result of each other perhaps not in that order or also with other techniques but within all techniques there should be another technique concealed and waiting to attack.

Its like relentless attack, one minute your relatively slow and at long range the next second your all the sudden at mid and close range relentlessly attacking at ever growing speed and force.

Also like lee said and i'm sure you all know its about punching thru your opponent not at them, this could simply mean exactly what it says or it could also mean ' do not chase your opponent around like some sort of dance, when your close enough go thru them with whatever technique you can and stop them in their tracks ' . in other words control your opponent do not let them control you. lead them do on not let them lead you on. of course Lee was just explaining how to put more power or impact into your punch. Which does help alot.

I think fearlessness is also a factor in jkd, its been awhile since i read his books but i think he mentions something about ' laying your life in your opponents hands ' meaning do not care rather you die or lose or win only fight and whatever happens will happen naturally.

I could have got alot more philosophical and spoken a bit more proper on this subject but i've done it so many times before i think that people miss the whole point of jkd when they focus on philosophies and proverbs alike, so instead of adding anything more I will paste what jkd is in Mr. Lee's own words which are simple and direct.

I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy. The closer to the true way of Kung Fu, the less wastage of expression there is. Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive. Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.

That paragraph I completely agree with and understand as seeing a reflection of my own thoughts so my opinion of what jkd is is exactly the same as Mr. lee explained himself above in that paragraph. To me its very simple and in fact if the discussion becomes complex then its actually moving further away from the purpose of jkd.

The more complex people make it sound the less they understand. Jkd is about simplicity and being adapt in real combat, its simple and direct, there is no rules or techniques that you have to use and there is no standard in which to choose, It is only that which you make of it.

' using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation ' those words clearly express what its about to me. You do not have to take a course or train in jkd at a school to practice jkd all you have to do no matter what style you practice rather its karate, jujutsu, muai thai, wing chun, bagua zhang, aikido, hung gar, or any other style, if you use lee's principles as guidelines in your martial art then you are practicing jkd.

I would like to Point out the most important part of his paragraph relative to this topic

' Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. '

Take care everyone, see you next time.


Edited by RoninKurosawa (06/28/07 02:22 PM)

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#251791 - 07/11/07 02:11 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: RoninKurosawa]
Cadfael Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 7
Hello All,

I hope that everyone is well. I am new to these forums and I hope to gain and give insight to all that I write to. I think that all the answers that I have read thus far regarding Jeet Kune Do are quite good. Thanks to all for their input. I read on Jerry Poteet's(original Bruce Lee student)that Jeet Kune Do meant The Way of the Intercepting Fist. Mr. Poteet siad that it did not mean The Way of the Ecclectic fist, or The Way of finding your Way. It meant just what the Chinese Language means: The Way of the intercepting Fist. Personally, I can understand why Bruce Lee liked this technique so much because it is an offensive/defensive defence method that is more efficient than other methods of defence eg. Blocking, parrying etc. Those moves are less effecient. I know that he borrowed this method from Wing Chun and Western fencing. What are all of your thoughts on this?

Cadfael

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#251792 - 08/25/07 01:15 AM What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
buja Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 2
JKO based on what? maybe soft or hard teaching
_________________________
http://martialart-supply.blogspot.com/

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#251793 - 08/25/07 10:27 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: buja]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Both. JKD tries to see no distinction between "one or the other".

To view one as above the other is limiting. JKD is about breaking THROUGH limitations.

JKD is about using ALL ways while not being "bound" to any of them. It tries to see the truth beyond the false notion of "style".


-John

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#251794 - 09/08/07 07:18 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: MattJ]
shinkengata Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 8
i dont pratice JKD but notice alot of the principals work even if you are trying to use a certian style what is efficent is efficent. i praticed Ninjutsu when i was younger with no teacher (i kno i kno dont yell) but learned alot because of stephen hays books and anatomy books i studied and sparred. i think understanding the body as much as possible can help any fighter. now i pratice southern Hung Gar with a great sifu in a strong style. what i find odd about JKD is that it reflects alot of wisdom in ninjustu, like if im going to fight a ground fighter i should know what they do and how to combat it in order to not be taken by suprise. JKD takes this kinda opinion but with the idea that you dont know who you are going to fight, so you need to know all. the problem with this IMHO is that it is not good to be a jack of all trades while a master at none. i think it is best to train one style hard and learn it's weakness and train them. while i completely dislike ground fighting i realise i may be in trouble if i get taken there, i know a good deal of body mechanics/ anatomy to help me counter this. of corse the best scenario is to use my hung gar to destroy the man before he can take me to the ground.

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#251795 - 09/22/07 08:11 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: shinkengata]
Totality Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
JKD is what ever works and scores. Being bound by nothing. Using universal principles. It is simple, direct and non-classical embodied by the 5 ways of attack.

I am part of several JKD forums and usually when this question come up, so does all the BS. I am impressed nobody is having 50 fits yet...lol

I have trained in JKD for some time, but what I do, I do NOT call JKD. That's what Bruce Lee called what he does. I use the JKD term so people can understand what I am talking about and where it comes from, as do most former Bruce Lee students. I have had the pleasure of training with and talking to several former Bruce lee students and most of them use the term JKD instead of saying, "Using the universal principles and strategies that Bruce Lee used". Bruce himself admits there is "nothing new under the sun" and he didnt invent anything new. He just brought what works for 'him' together. Jack Dempsey's 'Falling step', principles from 'Fencing', WC, A lot of Muhammad Ali's 'body conditioning' Philosophy from Musashi and other great warriors....the list goes on.

As I read the other posts that were posted I agree with Bruce, "there is nothing new under the sun" (including my post)...lol And if one wants they can check-out other JKD or MA sights and find threads exactly like this one.

There are a few distinct features to JKD, but I am not getting into that here. That is up to the individual to find for themselves....(that's probably the closest thing to JKD that I said here so far)...lol

Thanks,
_________________________
"You will fight the way you train"!

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#251796 - 09/23/07 07:35 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Totality]
Totality Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:

It is simple, direct and non-classical embodied by the 5 ways of attack.







Sorry I was re-reading my post here and notice I used the tenants of JKD and said embodied by the 5 ways of attack. This is not what is embodied by the 5 ways of attack, but rather it goes "The controlling of timing, distance & rhythm embodied by the 5 ways of attack".

Sorry for the mix-up.

Thanks,
_________________________
"You will fight the way you train"!

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#251797 - 09/23/07 10:26 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Totality]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
File this under the heading of: "My opinions...I could be wrong".

I think that "Original JKD", and whatever else for the most part that has been passed as JKD (JKD Concepts) is fairly dead at this point (with the exception of a few groups who truly get it).

If JKD is a "style", then it's definitely dead. As a style, I've personally outgrown it. In fact, I've outgrown most "styles" in this day an age.

Wasn't JKD about moving beyond stylistic limitations and boundaries? I'd have to say yes to that. If that's the case, then limiting JKD to a "way" is outdated and obsolete.

That doesn't mean that the "Five ways of attack" are obsolete however. It just means that outdated methods of training ARE.

I've trained JKD with several high-ranking individuals dating back to the early 80's. They were ahead of the pack back in those days. A few years later when some of them began working with Rickson Gracie, they were truly on the cutting edge of training. Then I saw a lot of BS. People were saying that only what Lee did between 1967 and 1973 was authentic JKD (nevermind the fact that such a philosophy circumvented every major concept of JKD that Lee had in mind).

Then you had others (JKD "Concept" crowd) who took the "buffet" approach and added everything under the sun into their training, claiming it was an "absorb what is useful" kind of thing. Those folks seemed to forget about the whole notion of "daily decrease" that Lee stressed to his followers. To them, daily INCREASE was more important. Those folks became "technique collectors" while the OJKD guys became "museum curators".

In the mean time, MMA groups began outpacing BOTH schools of thought. As a result, what once was a truly unique, "avant garde" approach to martial arts training, became just another classical, dead (static and unevolving) traditional martial arts practice, no better or worse than anything else.

Again, there are a few groups who get it. Just like everything else, 95% of the rest are just going through the motions. This is exactly why Bruce Lee shut down his schools and trashed the idea of opening a nationwide "chain" of JKD schools -- he knew that it wasn't something that was built for mass consumption.

Of course as with anything else....it ultimately made its way into the masses anyway and was subsequently diluted and bastardized...just as he knew it would be. Such is life.

Lastly, I'm a certified instructor of JKD. Yet when people come to train at my gym, "JKD" is rarely even talked about. The name is hardly ever mentioned. We just train (alive). Many things are covered and street defense is almost always at the forefront. The point is that when instructing, I don't say, "this is a JKD technique and, that is a JKD technique". Why? Because there are no such things. So, if there are no such things as JKD techniques....then is what I'm teaching JKD or just the art of human expression within human combat?

There are NO "styles" in reality. Just different methods of training the same, identical, things.


-John

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#251798 - 04/22/08 02:47 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: theoldone]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
looking at the link, i wish to learn JKD over Wing Chun, but i'm not so sure that there are many schools in my area.
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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