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#251779 - 02/03/07 10:59 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: switchfoot]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Post deleted by JKogas

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#251780 - 02/03/07 11:35 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Its looking at FIGHTING and making a style that best fits YOU and YOUR ATTRIBUTES (abilities).

You must consider this scientifically, economy of motion (making a smaller movement rather than a bigger one which is slower and uses up more energy), simplicity (whats the point of learning too much? You should attempt to cover all bases with as little as possible). This way everything that incorporates your style is functional. You must test what works for you and tuning your style by constantly sparring to see what works and what doesnt. Keeps whats useful and discard whats useless.
_________________________
Cut me Mick!

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#251781 - 02/16/07 12:20 PM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
JKD123 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 8
It is just a name, xD

joking

I think it just a process of helping you learn about yourself and what works for you.

Oh i feel stupid now, it sais at the end of the tao of jeet kune do, its just a name, DONT FUSS OVER IT.



Edited by JKD123 (02/16/07 12:33 PM)

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#251782 - 03/17/07 01:14 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: switchfoot]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
Wiki has a pretty good outline of the JKD principles.

1. Be Like Water
(Water can flow/crash easily; things most martial artists strive to be able to do well)

2.Economy of motion
(The fewer movements between your attack/parry/gaurd/etc. and it's completeion while retaining power/speed/general effectiveness, the better.)

3. Learn the four ranges of combat.
a) Kicking
b) Punching
c) Trapping
d) Grappling
(Do any research into Gracie Jujutsu, and you will read about the stories of how the knocked the stuffin' outta many a stand-up Martial Arts master because said master was only good at one/two ranges. Not to start a flame war over the suprememacy of this or that, but I would say the Gracie family was trying to illustrate a severe deficiency in martial culture: mainly, tunneled-vision specialization. That same idea of not being only focused on X or Y range is presented in this Principle)

4) Five Ways of Attack
-Simple Angle Attack( A single strike to an opponent)
-Hand/Head/[insert extremity here] immobalization attack(I think you got this one...)
-Progressive Indirect Attack (Attacking a different part of the opponent to create a weakness. Example: The Classic High/Low one-two)
-Attack By Combinations (Exactly that: multiple strike sin rapid succesion to thwart an opponent)
-Attack By Drawing (Creating an opening in the opponent's gaurd to generate an opportunity for a counter-attack)

5) Three part of JKD
-Efficiency (An attack that reaches it's mark)
-Directness (Doing what feels natural in a learned way; to quote Wiki)
-Simplicity (Exactly that. You move extremetiy, you perform move, you finish. Acrobatics and flash in between is generally avoided.)

6. Centerline (Bruce borrowed this from Wing Chun. Basically like controlling the center of the baord in Chess; preserve your own center while constantly forcing the other guy to have to keep adjusting his. Kinda like throwing him off balance?)

Hope that helps.

Really though, I'd say JKD is personal liberation from partialized conditioning. In that, you no longer view things according to how you have been trained/taught, but according to what you see transpiring in front of you.
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#251783 - 03/17/07 08:49 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Demonologist437]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
This may have already been mentioned, BUT...

I believe that ultimately, JKD is about the development of one's own unique "style", so to speak. JKD is about complete "self expression", which is why Lee always mandated that his JKD was "different than everyone elses". That means your's, mine and anyone else's will not ultimately look the same.

Thus the practice of JKD is "process" of that discovery rather than a "PRODUCT" (a distinct "style").

-John

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#251784 - 03/22/07 02:08 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: JKogas]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
A resounding "Amen!" to that, Mr. Kogas.
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#251785 - 04/20/07 12:34 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Demonologist437]
Sensei_Kreese Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 20
Loc: California
Some really interesting and intelligent postings on the subject. I have been training JKD since around 1986 and have been involved in waaaaaaay more than my fair share of internet battles over this subject (as well as all the political BS from way back in the Nucleus days). So, instead of trying to take the point away from the intention of the thread, I will say what I have discoverd about my own truth on the subject.

I began JKD wanting to learn everything and anything I could on Bruce Lee. I will admit to the disgruntlement of the mods here, that I love Bruce Lee and Brandon Lee. I feel a very strong connection to the man, his legacy, and all of his teachings. Does that make me a blind worshipper...no. I have loved Bruce since I first heard his name mantioned and saw my first Bruce Lee movie back in 1980. I know, that sounds contrary to what I said about not worshipping blindly at the altar of Bruce, but I also know that Bruce was only 33 years old when he died and hadn't been able to do more research in his short life.

So, I set upon my journey to obtain everything he wrote, or was written about, his life, his art, his movies, everything. For the longest time, I was a proponent of the Concepts way of JKD. I believed that what Inosanto said, was what was to be. I won't go into all the details of the journey I have been on in this regard, but I was personally successful in what I needed and wanted out of my training. Then I met someone who had/has a VERY extensive background in JKD and was a large proponent of the "original" JKD movement.

Once I began to train with him, I began to realize (very quickly) that I was missing a LOT of information on Bruce Lee's art. I was pretty stoked to be learning the things that Bruce Lee actually taught over his lifetime since the day he arrived in America. Not to sound like a "braggart" but I actually started to pick everything up very quickly and absorbed it like a sponge. I was able to meet and train with both Larry Hartsell and Leo Fong. Through them, I began to see the light, so to speak. I was even more convinced that I was doing the right thing and learning the right information. So, up to that point in my life (1995) I was pretty secure in my beliefs and couldn't be happier. Then, I was slapped in the face for the very first time.

So, to summarize my beliefs up to this point, I felt, and to a large degree, still do, that if you claim to know anything about JKD, you should have at least a basic working knowledge of what Bruce actually taught. You don't have to be a scholar on everything "Bruce Lee" but understand the proponents and connecting truths that Bruce made as a core part of his teaching.

Simplicity
Economy of motion
Centerline theory
Power-side forward THEORY
forward pressure

That is just a lumped-together category, as you can tell, as others have already touched many of the details. Obviously, those things can and do exist in many arts, not just JKD, but as a rule that is what I feel Bruce Lee wanted to be the core of the art.

For me, JKD is that which works in a street attack (and all the philosophy that you can gleen about life, etc I am not a philosopher so I won't pontificate that point LOL)

Actually, maybe I am oversimplfying myself a bit. Let's say, that I feel that JKD is that which works VERY effectively in a street attack using the above mentioned core compentancies, if you will.

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#251786 - 04/20/07 12:53 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Sensei_Kreese]
Sensei_Kreese Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 20
Loc: California
To continue my point:

So, I was a happy lil camper and training away with whom I felt (and feel) was one of the foremost experts on Bruce Lee's art. Then one day, one of my training partners told me he was training in Jiu Jitsu (Japanese not Brazilian). When I asked him why (as I felt he was getting the best possible instruction on fighting there was) his response to me was that he wanted to learn something different that might help him in a grappling type situation, as we did....zero of that in class. I was stunned to be honest with you. Then he said "You should keep your mind open, cause you never know what you might find" Then he told me "you have a lot of potential to go beyond what you have been taught here. Sure, you will probably learn a TON of what Bruce Lee actually taught, maybe more than anyone else outside of Bruce's own students, but that's it, and trust me, there is always something else you can learn"

I had prided myself on being open-minded up until this point, so it shocked me to hear that I wasn't being that way now. So, I kept his prophetic words in my memory and book-marked it. Then, a funny thing happend. I saw a "Karate" magazine with a caption on the front that read "Tony Blauer eats up grapplers and spits out the bones" That really really had my attention since the UFC was now really beginning to catch on fire.

The article was written by Steve Neklia, a well-known martial arts journalist who has trained with some of the greatest legends in the martial arts, to include Larry Hartsell and Rickson Gracie. Well, old Steve could do nothing but sing the highest praises for Tony and the things Tony was saying in the article blew me away and made me realize that I was missing something, but what?

In the same magazine, Tony had an ad for some of his videos, an audio tape, his street-fighting guides, and a t-shirt, all for a small price. I bought the package deal and when it arrived, I was completely stunned by what I saw.

After watching the first video, I actually asked myself "what have I been doing all this time?" From that point on, I became a huge fan of Tony's and thoroughly studied anything I could that he taught. I even called him a few times and got him to discuss a lot of things with me about training.

If you ask me, Tony Blauer is doing what Bruce Lee would have done had he lived, simply put. Tony and I have had many conversations about this topic and I agree with him 100%. He said "Do you think if Bruce Lee came back right now and saw all this argueing and political BS going on over his art, that he would be happy?" Of course not. He also told me that I was one of the very few JKD practitioners that embraced him, and that he was "black-balled" by the JKD community at large. When I asked him why since "You teach what works, isn't that what JKD is supposed to be all about?" Tony's reply to me was "It's about MONEY". The light switch came on.

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#251787 - 04/20/07 01:10 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Sensei_Kreese]
Sensei_Kreese Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 20
Loc: California
Did Tony show anything that I didn't know on a "physical" standpoint...not really, in fact, a lot of it looked similar to JKD in that he used a lot of economy of motion, he tended to stand with a power side forward stance (although Tony will tell you that it doesn't matter and most of the time you won't be able to choose a 'stance' when you get attacked), but what he did show was way more gritty, raw, and realistic. But, the most important thing that he taught (teaches) is the psychological aspect of training. I was more "awakened" by the things he talked about, than by what he demonstrated. Since he started, Tony has had a ton of students come and go, some of which have gone on to be pretty successful in their own rights. I will forever be grateful to Tony for waking me up and helping me to achieve that true "open-mindedness" that I needed. It actually helped me to truly appreciate what I had learned in JKD, and am still learning to this day.

From there, I was keen to keep my eyes open for anything that could help me and my students to become better at self defense and self expression. I encourage anyone to train in whatever they like, who cares what anyone else thinks about it.

I had to get off my pedastal thinking that if it isn't JKD, then it must not be good. I ended up meeting and training with so many gifted and talented martial artists after that, and I am forever grateful to Tony for being the first person to crack open my eyes.

So, here is what I think is missing from JKD as it where, or rather, from what Bruce Lee taught up until his death:

Good groundwork
Fear management
Psychological training
Weapons training

I agree that MMA training, by and large, should not be confused with JKD. JKD was designed for self defense, and/or street attacks. MMA events, although tough, brutal, and full of great athletes, is still a sport. I think sparring should be a part of training, and I think aliveness should be emphasized, but, you can spar all day long and be great at it, but in the long run, that is NOT a fight, and is it the furthest thing from an attack as you can get.

That being said, I also do not feel you can train statically and realistically expect to be able to defend yourself either. I will often ask people "do you know how to fight?" and they may answer "sure, we spar all the time" Not the same thing. Try this, the next time you want to undertsand the difference, start your sparring match when you are sitting on a chair and your partner is standing directly in front of you. allow your partner to make the first move before you do antyhing back, and try to allow basically anything, within reason.

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#251788 - 04/20/07 01:14 AM Re: What IS Jeet Kune Do [Re: Sensei_Kreese]
Sensei_Kreese Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 20
Loc: California
Now, after all of that, I still consider my JKD instructor to be my primary instructor, and I still train with him as much as I can. I still learn things about Bruce Lee's art from him that I never saw before. And yes, I have trained in many other arts, such as Muay Thai, Kali, Kung Fu, TKD, boxing, and BJJ. However, other than JKD, the only art I train in full time is BJJ.

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