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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
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#250876 - 05/09/06 09:31 PM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Guys-

The only "proof" that one can provide are the results that one can achieve.

I'm sure that you guys know my opinions on this whole thing but truthfully, no amount of arguing will "prove" anything.

We can DEBATE a topic and that's always good. But lets do so in as civil a manner as possible.


Thanks.


-John

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#250877 - 05/09/06 09:37 PM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: ShikataGaNai]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Absolutely there is science. I consider myself a martial scientist.

I beleive if you read the original poster again, you will find that he claimed that JKD is mathematically provably superior to TMA.

I just want to see the math! Show me and we will all laugh together!

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#250878 - 05/10/06 01:32 AM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: BuDoc]
Wosaw Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 16
The only things I do know is that JKD has been called one of the most scientific Martial arts. Can I prove that, not really, just saying what I've read and heard. What I do know is there was once a study that pitted a JKD practioner versus a karate practioner to see who had the stronger punch. Each person apparently had the same strength. Well the outcome was the JKD punch was stronger. As for TMA being scientific, there is a science to everything. Whether you guys wanna argue whats more scientific is up to you. There have been studies on MA styles, but unforunately I can't find them. If anyone does I'd love to see them though, and im not joking, I'd really like to see anything anyone can find.

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#250879 - 05/10/06 11:06 AM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: Wosaw]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

What I do know is there was once a study that pitted a JKD practioner versus a karate practioner to see who had the stronger punch. Each person apparently had the same strength. Well the outcome was the JKD punch was stronger.




I find this hard to believe. There are only good punches and bad punches. I have known some TMA people that could punch extremely hard. I would definitely need to see this study.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#250880 - 05/12/06 02:19 PM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: MattJ]
Wosaw Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 16
Well I tried finding this article/video, cause im not entirely sure where I might of seen this information. It was either a blackbelt magazine, an official MA article, or a discovery channel special. I did a little research but all I can really find are just forums, which kinda arent a creditable source. A JKD article
The link to the article says, "As early as 1969(?), Lee was scientifically comparing his techniques to those from other arts: an article that year documented the comparison of the Straight Lead Punch from JFJKD to the Rear Punch from Karate with quantifiable results" Well that still doesnt show the study, what was the quantifiable result (faster, stronger, ect) or tells exactly was in it, but thats the closest thing I could find. Yet, I'm pretty sure that wasnt the thing I got the info from. If I find whereever I got this from, I'll letcha know. Seriously though even if it might be stronger I still think you should do what works for you. Anyways, for now what I said isnt creditable, so maybe next time I should have some proof

Oh and btw MattJ, I didnt mean TMAs didnt have powerful punches lol. Cause any TMA guy who can break a board, brick, ect. with his fist ain't exactly got a soft punch.

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#250881 - 05/13/06 10:29 AM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: BuDoc]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

Absolutely there is science. I consider myself a martial scientist.

I beleive if you read the original poster again, you will find that he claimed that JKD is mathematically provably superior to TMA.

I just want to see the math! Show me and we will all laugh together!

Page




Ok, so I'm not gonna sit and work out a little equation for you but I say what I mean.

When you chamber a punch (to the head), it has to move a good foot further than the boxing punch. This, obviously will mean a loss of accuracy and speed. Like if you run 10 metres instead of running 5. You don't need to be a mathematical wizard to comprehend that it will take longer.
You bring the rear hand to the hip while your other hand is extended, this time it has to move something like four times as far to block a punch to the head as does a simple parry from near the chin.

Try this if you don't believe me. Have a partner throw mock punches at your head. Keep your hands by the side of your face and stop them. Next try the same drill with your hands by your hips. See that? Much harder AND slower.

I'm sure somebody could work out the actual maths of it if they wanted to, and I'm sure it's probably been done, but it's not really necessary as the vast majority who have studied both techniques can just plainly see it.

By the way, that smirk on your face says a lot more about you than it does me.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#250882 - 05/13/06 10:37 AM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: BuDoc]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

What I am slowly learning about is faceless "Know-nothings" with Battleship mouths that can't defend their row boat a$$es!





I just want to point out that whilst I consider myself a "good" MAist, my post has absolutely nothing to do with my skill level. I'm not gonna start arguing about who would win. That kind of closed mindedness is one of the reasons why TMA is stuck in that same old rut.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#250883 - 06/13/06 12:19 PM Re: Breaking tradition [Re: jkdwarrior]
SmithNWessonDo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: North Texas
Someone's fist made a connection with the side of another person's head. The person hit fell over, hit the other side of his head on the ground and died after having a severe concussion. Someone who saw the attacker land his blow said it was done in a really fast manner, most likely in a certain stylized fashion, but in a way he wasn't familiar with. The witness got into a big discussion with his martial arts buddy about whether the killer punch was traditional martial arts or "progressive" mixed martial arts. After arguing for a good couple of hours, both parties heard a loud bang and a bullet pierced the skull of the martial artist and he immediately fell down dead. Was the bullet that hit the martial artist fired in a traditional way or a progressive way? Quite frankly, who cares? Two people were killed.
_________________________
"After all, we all have only two arms and two legs." "Death is certain, life is not."

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