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#249944 - 04/30/06 12:01 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
What I'm saying is
Quote:

That might be the statistical calculation for commotio cordis, but I don't know that anyone has done a scientific study of that particular phenomenon in a martial arts setting




It isn't a provable statistic, but a "calculated guess" based on population incidence, which proves nothing. If you have one death in 400,000 people, do the odds drop to 1 in 200,000 if somebody else dies, or is it 2 in 400,000?.. and where does that 400,000 number come from? (486,000 was the actual number quoted).

I laugh every day at news reports about the casualty numbers from the war in Iraq. So far, in armed conflict, fewer soldiers have died from combat(2400) in three years of war than have been killed riding motorcycles in America last year (5000). Does that automatically make it twice as safe to go to war as to ride a motorcycle? Again, it's apples and oranges here, guys and gals... or since it's three years, is that 15,000? See what I mean?

Statistically speaking, it makes me wonder what the odds are if you're riding a motorcycle in a war zone???

Seriously, I'd like to see some data. The question is how do we arrive at a legitimate morbidity figure? The original statement was rhetorical...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#249945 - 04/30/06 12:56 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
you may want to rephrase how you put that....you can't be that callous. when you talk about casualties of war, you have to include BOTH sides PLUS civillians. The reason we don't have THOSE numbers is because no one will tell us. Nothing 'funny' or ironic about that.

also, we are a bit off topic.

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#249946 - 04/30/06 03:08 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: TeK9]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: S. Kimura, my info comes from a lon-time student (now an instructor). He quoted Kimura as saying "One punch, fight over". I admit that this is hear-say but no one who held the Impact Pad for Kimura would doubt that the man could certainly do damage w/ a single punch. But kill...I doubt it.

The ammount of trauma a body can withstand is variable & dependent on several factors: speed, force, area etc. I', not a physicist, doctor or hired assassin so my opinion is just that, an opinion.

Let's just get off the killing fantasy, train harder & accept the term for what it is - "sometimes all you have is one opportunity so make the most of it".

owari

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#249947 - 04/30/06 03:11 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: hedkikr]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
how about:
"One strike, one will"

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#249948 - 04/30/06 08:34 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I wasn't being callous or laughing at the casualties in either case, but the way the reporting is done. The press is constantly comparing apples to oranges or stewed tomatoes to fried okra and trying to draw a comparison.

During the second world war, Americans lost something like 17,000 troops in one day in a training accident. The World Trade Center attack killed over 3000 Americans, and a three year war has resulted in less than 2500 casualties. That's pretty good soldiering, but really bad statistical accounting for comparison purposes.

Didn't plan on hijacking this to a discussion of troop movements, but since you bring it up, my father is one of those soldiers buried in a foreign country. He and 17,000 of his closest friends rest in Margraten Military Cemetary in Holland (Battle of the Bulge). My discussion was directed at poor statistical accounting and comparison, not what was happening to the troops or motorcycle riders.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#249949 - 04/30/06 08:52 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: hedkikr]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
The reason karate is an art is that it requires training and application. If the only weapon available to the theory of ikken hisatsu was blunt force, I would be more than willing to agree that it's unlikely that a one hit, one life scenario was in play... However, body structure and weak points in the anatomy cause it to be more than plausible.

Strikes to the brachial plexus, windpipe, through the eye socket and into the groin are more than capable of putting someone completely out of the game. Disruptions of the heart and blood supply from striking the artery structure might be a bit slower, but still get the job done.

I won't argue the point any further, but I think it's a bit loopy to just completely dismiss something that's been a key point of training in many of the Japanese and Okinawan styles on opinions. I'm sure that many people haven't seen anyone killed with one punch, but I have been there when someone was killed with one hit by a baseball... and I don't think that a karate punch has any less force or frequency application than a thrown ball, so it can happen.

I would yield to Sensei Kimura's knowledge rather than the internet on this one.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#249950 - 04/30/06 08:53 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: wristtwister]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
wrist..drop it,everyone drop it.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249951 - 04/30/06 08:59 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: wristtwister]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
There may have been other factors regarding the untimely death,but you saw it I didn't.

I'll go along with the doc on this one. I think his figures are right.

I have studied pressure point strikes and I believe in them to an extent. Also accuracy and power should already be a goal,but to pretend like your punch(or strike)would kill someone is not realistic.
I do think that there are some people in K1,pride,UFC,boxing,etc that can probably hit harder than I can.Maybe they just don't know how?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249952 - 04/30/06 10:24 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: BrianS]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Moderated


Edited by BrianS (04/30/06 11:43 AM)
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#249953 - 04/30/06 11:07 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: BrianS]
GuitarNinja Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 182
_________________________
Mastery is in the practice itself.

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