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#250024 - 08/20/07 10:13 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: chunky_chicken]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

i was told of an old MA master that would take a hammer, rock, or whatever and would break his hand. then he would put it in the shape of a fist and wrap it like that to heal. the bone would come back harder and stronger, and hed do it again. repeating this over and over until the filled in the parts of his joints and he no longer had a "hand", but a giant bone block on the end of his arm. now, getting hit with this once, in the right spot, and try to say your not gonna die.




Oh my.
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#250025 - 08/20/07 10:16 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: student_of_life]
jpoor Offline
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Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Well, if you hit the nose just right and drive the cartilage . . . no, wait, that's not right


Sure, one strike can kill.
A blow to the sternum, or other points on the heart line can stop the heart.
A strike to the throat can crush the wind pipe.
A strike to the clavicle can break it and sever a major blood vessel causing death.
A strike that breaks the femur (tough to do at best) could sever the femoral artery.

And on and on.


The trouble with relying on those types of strikes is that those blood vessels and such are placed where they are in the body for a reason. The are well protected. Sure, one punch can kill, but so can one bullet, and far too many people survive each to rely on it.
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#250026 - 08/20/07 10:34 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: chunky_chicken]
cxt Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Chunky

The story may be "true" in that someone may have done it--I just doubt that it had the result they hoped.

Certain folks go big on the conditioning thing, hitting the hands with hammers etc--but to litterally break then and hope it heals better and stonger than it was before is real reach.
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#250027 - 08/20/07 12:40 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: cxt]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Leaving the quest for karate myth aside it just occured to me another answer.

Having trained a little with the late Sherman Harrill and having seen the student who took over his dojo, with intense makiwara work over several decades there is no question one punch can drop someone, no matter where they hit.

Why does the saying need translated that the punch itself kills, rather the interpretation that one punch (stops the opponent offering the opportunity to continue as needed) is enough.
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#250028 - 08/20/07 12:46 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Victor Smith]
student_of_life Offline
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
well said
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#250029 - 08/20/07 01:36 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Victor Smith]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Why does the saying need translated that the punch itself kills, rather the interpretation that one punch (stops the opponent offering the opportunity to continue as needed) is enough.




Simple, because there are relatively few people who understand karate's application in combat.

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#250030 - 08/20/07 01:36 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Victor Smith]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Yes thats more feasiable and makes more sense. But in certain incidents one strike has killed, but I argue, no I debate that its not a principle you should wait or bank on in a conflict. Sometimes or most times it just don't happen.

As theories goes you hear alot things, such as the center mass kill zone 1 shot stop in combat handguning. Its been proven that though the human body, Is dead (r mortally wounded) in some cases its doesn't stop defending itself until you are dead. In rare cases some people can within stand 2-3 up to 8-10 direct hits and still keep fighting from a handgun.

We are blessed with an amazing gift, that spurs the body, the human will. I'd never bet against it. Better bring your "A" game.
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#250031 - 08/20/07 01:44 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: medulanet]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
do you?
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#250032 - 08/20/07 01:47 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Neko456]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Just at the rare baseball strike to the chest kills, I'm sure that there have been rare instances of martial strikes that have done so too. But who can verifiable destroy life every time with a given strike? And even if they could would you have any desire to know them, and the prison they'd be living in?

One friend who is Chinese maintains that it likely did happen in China, but as the people were often with weakened bodies from continual starvation, it may not have been as hard to do with individuals at peak health.

All things may not be equal.

Frankly, I understand the theoretical discussion to a point, but I have absolutely no desire to train to kill with a strike. And I have grave reservations about anyone who has, does or will do so.

Many Okinawan's have expressed the highest karate-ka is the one who lives longest. While they train hard, there has been little need for killing power in a strike as an objective on Okinawa.

As a saying taking more out of it than just being a saying is likely wrong.


Edited by Victor Smith (08/20/07 01:49 PM)
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#250033 - 08/20/07 02:14 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Victor Smith]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Granted. Just for the purpose of this thread in Okinawa there were several cases or stories of Karateka or future Masters killing with their h2h art. Yabu killed a solider, A wrestler was kicked and killed by a well known Karateka whose name escapes me, (who died early from appendicydist, I beleive) Oyama (probably in Japan or Korea) killed a sailor defending himself, its rumoured.

So the peaceful resolution of that your Karate is greatest if you live longer, maybe is just an old man's thought in hindsight. The Practice of Karate in itself will make you fit for a longer life, compare to inactivity, but it also brings you through the trenches when it has to.

One strike, one kill, is just a theory with scattered facts.
I train it, but I don't practice it, the human body in motion is too unpredictable to be captured in a test tube.

Each strike could, but if it doesn't the next move will and so on and so on. That is what Granteeds you get old, and then think ain't karate Great.


Edited by Neko456 (08/20/07 02:16 PM)

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