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#249447 - 04/27/06 07:05 PM Krav's "bad rep"
SilkyFighter Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 21
Hello everyone, I just became a member of FA.com, and I am a fairly new Krav practitioner (I am about to do my level 2 test a week from Saturday! )

Anyway:
Recently I have been going onto various martial-talk websites and it seems that Krav has a bad rep with some other MAists. Could it possibly be because they feel threatened by Krav? Half of the people Krav-bashing say they have never experienced Krav first hand, just only read about it in some magazine. Why do they throw out false accusations?
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#249448 - 04/27/06 07:47 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SilkyFighter]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I think Krav's marketing scheme is the main culprit. That and the fact that most people know it from a J.Lo movie or Angelina Jolie. I practice it, but I'll admit I'm not too into the marketing myself. The fees schools pay to teach it are exhorbitant and from what I've seen, it's pretty much a requirement that they stock their gear shelves with KM brand gear. The spin offs aren't much better - FIGHT, Commando KM, etc. seemed to be obsessed with giving people some false sense of military empowerment. They seem to all claim "we're ex-IDF and we wear cammo, therefore our system is gold!!!"
I am NOT bashing the arts themselves. They are HIGHLY effective and advantageous to the public in the sense that they rely on gross motor skills over fine motor skills (thanks for that one awhile back, RangerG). You can learn Krav effectively and quickly and then fine tune it into what works best for you. Like most things MA these days though, it's hung up on selling images. KM is not alone in that, but since it's the new flava in the sweet shop, it gets called out on it more.

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#249449 - 04/27/06 07:49 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SilkyFighter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hi Silky.

KM does have a bad rap amongst many of the "alive" training folks. They consider that any art that does not train against resistance most of the time to be virtually worthless.

This would include many arts besides KM.

Personally, I don't like to bash particular arts because I have seen many instructors of different arts that do train their students properly (ie; adding resistance).

Bottom line is, if you enjoy the training, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#249450 - 04/27/06 08:03 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I can gurentee you that, despite what peopel tend to say, KM may not be perfect but for realistic self defense, it's lightyears ahead of most everything else out there(at least as far as "traditional" martial arts are concerned. It is definetely worth it. Listen to what experienced practitioners say, not what some nobody got from a book or two(Oh crap I'm one of those nobody's! oops!lol).
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#249451 - 04/27/06 08:20 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
SilkyFighter Offline
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 21
MattJ, what do you mean by Krav having no resistance training?
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#249452 - 04/27/06 08:54 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SilkyFighter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
?????????

Please re-read my post, that is not what I said.

Resistance to me is sparring or sparring related drills.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#249453 - 04/27/06 10:24 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Stormdragon
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#249454 - 04/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
SilkyFighter Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 21
Well I guess it just what Krav school you train at because my school offers the FIGHT program. All we do in that program is well, fight (spar). It has boxing, kickboxing, and groundfighting classes on top of the self-defense program and an endurance training program.
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#249455 - 04/27/06 10:46 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
SilkyFighter Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 21
I apologize, I just re-read your earlier post after I relpied and I see what you are saying. It really doesn't matter to me what other people think. Based off of the other martial arts I have been involved with, Krav has the most to-the-point approach to combat I have experienced. I like the no nonsense attitude.
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#249456 - 04/27/06 11:20 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
I wouldn't proclaim KM to be gold, but I wager it's pretty close to it. Seriously, it's a really great system because of it's grounding in today's reality. The reason KM's bashed is it's probably the most well known of all combatatives, and since it's really the combatatives with which hardcore traditional MAs take exception, it's easy to see why KM is the scapegoat. As far as a false sense of empowerment, that's more indicative of the instructors than the system, whether it's KM or something else. If you want to talk about a real sense of overzealous empowerment...well, let's just say some loyalists of certain traditional MA systems wouldn't like it.

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#249457 - 04/28/06 10:23 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
cronin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, NY
Iím with MattJ- with the new wave of popularity in the MMA scene, anything outside of that circle is considered useless. The MA world will always be overflowing with debate. Thatís a given. Those MMA practitioners (or any combat sport practitioners) use evidence of their effectiveness in the ring/cage as the basis of their argument. With KM, thereís no apparent evidence of their effectiveness (at least, not in the UFC) and having celebrities like J.Lo., Angelina Jolie and Shannon Elizabeth representing KM, you could imagine what the opposition comes up with given that fodder. And then itís down to the puerile question: Who would win in a fight? Jenny from the Block or Matt Hughes? Few of these folks know about Sam Sade or Amir Perets, but theyíre not on SpikeTV, so why should they know?

I think about what John Danaher said,ĒThe way you train is the way you fight. This simple point is important and can not be overemphasized.Ē Whatever art/system (repeat- WHATEVER art/system) that will allow students to practice their techniques in very nearly the same way they will apply it in a real fight, then it should be considered effective.




Edited by cronin (04/28/06 11:26 AM)
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#249458 - 04/28/06 11:37 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
The bottom line is, whatever MA you train in and enjoy, that is the best one.......for you. If you enjoy it and YOU think it's effective than that's all that counts. It shouldn't be about who can kick whose butt. If you don't like what your training in, then it won't be effective. Krav has a bad rap because any ammo someone can get agaist it, they use. They talk about the money issue, and other things, but it's usually the people who aren't involved in Krav or who have never taken Krav that do all the talking. It is expensive to be an Instructor, but I think it is on a level field as far as tuition to be a student. So the people that talk about the money issue, don't teach then.
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#249459 - 04/28/06 12:00 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Dedicated1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree. While I don't know the cost of being an instructor, I do know that what I pay as a student is reasonable in my area...:) And, I have trained TMA, Kung Fu, and now Krav and I love it all..You get out of it what you put into it.
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#249460 - 04/28/06 01:29 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
IMO (and this is my opinion), the reason some people think MMA is the best is because it can be argued that it is the best out of the non-weapon based fighting methods (read: not including combatatives, kali, fencing, etc.). The fact that some arts are considered, well not usless, but less effective, is in part due to MMA's rise in popularity. You took Thai, which is the best standup art, minus the hands, capable for both street and the ring. Do you agree?

The truth is that there are very effective fighting systems out there and not so effective ones. It's not easy talking about it on this board because droves of people would be offended if I mentioned some of these arts by name. On another forum/site I frequent, it'd be a different story. But I digress.

The point is the line you quoted resonates very deeply. The problem is, in all honestly, how many arts can be deemed truly effective for a real street fight?

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#249461 - 04/28/06 03:03 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Dedicated - I agree with you 100% that if you can't cut the bread, don't make the sandwich as far as the cost to instructors goes. This is a particularly nitpicky thing on my behalf because I have a certain amount of desire to teach Krav techniques, but I don't want to pay for the liscense and I really don't want my teachings to be plastered with logos for a worldwide organization. Besides, I only want to teach for non-profit orgs or seminars that are geared toward day-to-day self defense. I think the Krav training program is ideal for this, but again, I don't think it needs to be cashed in on so much.

SEAL - I hear you on the MMA thing. In fact, I don't even understand the concept of MMA, even though I currently spar under it's format. I always thought of MMA as just that (mixed martial arts) until the UFC explosion when it seemed to have become a distinct style with several variations that all fit within a set of rules. Many people don't realize that Krav is NOTHING like that and that it has no ring-reference in it's training. And it SHOULDN'T and I hope it never does. Watered-down Krav would be utterly pointless.

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#249462 - 04/28/06 03:42 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Quote:

Stormdragon




Brians- Sorry, I aint into that.
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#249463 - 04/28/06 04:55 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Stormdragon, yeah right.

From an outsider looking in and not knowing all that much about Krav, I have a couple of questions.

How much time is spent teaching and practicing proper punching and kicking?

Is time spent learning proper body mechanics within each technique?

Is it a reactionary SD approach to specific situations or assaults?
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#249464 - 04/28/06 07:35 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Every class has combatives, you work on your stance, movement and punching in every class. There is also alot of time spent on the proper technique to punch and to kick. If you learn the proper way, you get more power and more weight into every kick or punch. As for the the defenses and combatives, they are all based on your natural reactions to attacks. This makes them easier to learn and more importantly, easier to remember.
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If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#249465 - 04/28/06 07:50 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Dedicated1]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
As MMA was brought up in this thread, I'll offer my viewpoints.

It isn't a particular 'art' that is going to make anyone a good fighter. It comes down to the individual and particularly, HOW an individual trains that is important.

Many people have false notions of what MMA means. Lets remember that MMA isn't a "style" per-se', it's a method of training which combines every "range". MMA in that sense is in a constant state of evolution as stylists from different backgrounds train in it. Thus it is like JKD in that, it is not a style and that the individual ultimately determines HOW he applies his fighting skills.

You could train MMA for the "street" and you can train it for the ring/cage. I personally supplement certain "street" aspects of it into the standard training. That will usually mean specific strategical as opposed to tactical differences.

Krav Maga is a method of training which appears to not use the concept of aliveness as much as those who train MMA do. I am still investigating this art however and will refrain from passing judgements until I have.

Of course, everyone is welcome to help "educate me" because I have to tell you, if I find something -- ANYTHING -- to be useful (functional) in any way, I'll take whatever I can from it and add it into what I'm doing already.



-John

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#249466 - 04/28/06 09:06 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Quote:

As MMA was brought up in this thread, I'll offer my viewpoints.

It isn't a particular 'art' that is going to make anyone a good fighter. It comes down to the individual and particularly, HOW an individual trains that is important.

Many people have false notions of what MMA means. Lets remember that MMA isn't a "style" per-se', it's a method of training which combines every "range". MMA in that sense is in a constant state of evolution as stylists from different backgrounds train in it. Thus it is like JKD in that, it is not a style and that the individual ultimately determines HOW he applies his fighting skills.

You could train MMA for the "street" and you can train it for the ring/cage. I personally supplement certain "street" aspects of it into the standard training. That will usually mean specific strategical as opposed to tactical differences.

Krav Maga is a method of training which appears to not use the concept of aliveness as much as those who train MMA do. I am still investigating this art however and will refrain from passing judgements until I have.

Of course, everyone is welcome to help "educate me" because I have to tell you, if I find something -- ANYTHING -- to be useful (functional) in any way, I'll take whatever I can from it and add it into what I'm doing already.



-John





Jeff Jimmo could have said this.
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#249467 - 04/28/06 09:20 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Two things in defense of Krav, or at least where I train in it - we spend TONS of time on proper punching and kicking. The idea is to not break your knuckles etc. in a real fight.

- I've seen it trained very live and those who could do it are fierce Unfortunately it's grown such a huge student base that there are many out there who simply aren't willing to take it to the level. Whatever though, I guess it's cool if people just want to lose weight and expand their dating pool. Like most arts, it's only as good as what you put into it.

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#249468 - 04/28/06 11:05 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Like it or not, KM is growing ever-popular in the U.S., not unlike Karate's explosion decades ago. And as a result, one should not assume all KM schools are created equal. They should be, yes. But this is not the case. Like you said, some schools do train live. I think training live is one of the most important components for any fighting method. But unlike wrestling, boxing, BJJ, and other sports-style martial arts which offer live training, they do not prepare you for the pre- and post-fight. They also may not prepare you for adrenaline-induced stress when you're fighting for your life. I think an all-around fighter should possess the skills of a MMA, as well as combatative training. The two in tandem represent the complete package.

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#249469 - 04/29/06 08:40 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree it is definitely what you put into it. And on a personal note, I wish everyone at my school put in 110%, but unfortunately, they want to loose weight, etc. I feel good knowing that when I am training, i give it my all. Abou the hardening of the knuckles, something I would like to get opinion on is, if we want to harden the knuckles, why wear wraps? I tried it, but stopped wearing them becuase they felt like they restricted my hands and i Like the feel of my raw hands hitting something. Plus, in the street, there are no wraps....Just my choice....
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#249470 - 04/29/06 05:05 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JasonM]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Anyone new to punching should wrap, not just to prevent your knuckles from being opened, but more importantly for support in your wrists. After you have trained awhile, you can try to punch without wraps. If you punch properly, the risk of opening your knuckles is greatly reduced. Another thing to make sure of, is that your pad holder is holding properly. If you are not connecting square with the mitts, (if your hitting the mitt on an angle), you will also damage your knuckles.
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If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#249471 - 04/29/06 10:25 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Here's a link to a video on Krav Maga. It should give you some idea (don't base an entire argument for/against KM based on this one video -- try it out and decide is the best approach).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw&search=krav%20maga

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#249472 - 04/30/06 07:32 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
That's pretty much all the Krav Maga that I've seen. It looks like just another typical demonstration. That's the problem....most people's idea of good training is what I see as just a demonstration. About like every Hapkido school I've ever been inside.

And it's really nothing different than anything else out there trained in a dead manner with compliant partners who "play along" to make sure you do everything right.

Does anyone else really wonder why I find fault with those methods? Doesn't it seem like a bad idea bordering on NEGLIGENCE to create such a powerful sense of false confidence in people?

That's the thing I'm most afraid of. I mean, when you never spar (for real), you really develop a notion that you're some super deadly BAD-@SS. Your EGO inflates and your (false) confidence spikes as well.

Perhaps there is some use for training in that manner. But if it never moves beyond that level of "resistance", I'd not put any faith in those people or their abilities.

Who knows.


-John

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#249473 - 04/30/06 08:58 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
I understand what you're saying. Again, that demonstration does not sum up Krav Maga. I know the Krav Maga schools in my area DO resistance, or live, training.

A perfect example of this "negligence", as you put it, is the art of Aikido. I'm not a big fan of it, and that's putting it lightly. And the arts I studied for years, Karate and TKD, are not much better.

It's important to do drills. These demonstrations do serve a purpose. But live training is essential. That's why western arts are revered, because they commonly employ live training (i.e. spanish knife fighting, fencing, wrestling, boxing, bjj).

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#249474 - 05/01/06 11:45 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I hear you loud and clear J. Nothing is more humbling than getting in the ring. There is no way to mistake yourself for an ultimate badass after a few good shots in the face. Still though, I've always looked at demonstrations as what they are - demonstrations. They are an example of the how the technique could optimally be applied. Yes, they cancel out hundreds of X factors, but how else is a passive audience supposed to see the technique in action? And without knowing what perfect technique looks like, it's hard to visualize what you are striving for (even though it's ALWAYS gonna go out the window when you actually fight). It does all add up to something.

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#249475 - 05/01/06 03:21 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
PSYOPS Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25
Negligence?

I agree any school with teenaged Black Belts. Negligent!

This whole conversation sounds like MMA guys getting their panties in a wad over nothing. Krav Maga is a reality based "SELF DEFENSE" system. If it works for the IDF and LAPD, Department of Justice etc.. I think that civillians will learn from it. The fact that J.Lo and others have signed on does not devalue the system anymore than Zhang Ziyi's involvement in Kung Fu devalues the system.

If anyone is running their mouths about KM yet they have never even tried one class you should consider the source. This is an age old battle. "My style is better than your style". How boring is that?

BBJ is very popular because of the commercial success of UFC. None of that has anything to do with what happens in the street. Weapons defense, rape prevention, law enforcement, self defense or any of the things that Krav Maga directly trains for. Again MMA is fine and for the most part any training will help. It still comes down to the individual though.

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#249476 - 05/01/06 03:52 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: PSYOPS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
It was just another 'demonstration' video for me too. I'd lke to see a video of what techniques are supposed to look like and then what they really look like. They work,I'm sure,but they don't look pretty.
Also the multiple spinning kicks were just

I did see a couple of karate moves in there,lol.
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#249477 - 05/01/06 05:14 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
cronin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, NY
Wow, that video is nothing short of hilarious.

Seriously, JK, try out a class and see for yourself- (it's funny, I think we're all saying the same thing here... )

My 2cents: KM focuses on getting home safe- not engaging or 'squaring up' on your opponent, but reality-based training for the purpose of self-defense. Kravists arenít preparing to go 5 rounds or do a single-elimation tourney (although, Iíve seen some that have the cardio and heavy hands to do so). But given a situation, theyíre going to fight like MF to get themselves out of the situation. That includes, possibly running for help, if necessary.

And although sparring is not an everyday thing (at least not in my school), there are some KM schools that have sparring in their 'FIGHT classes' like mine, which include (but are not limited to) fighting instruction, fight drills and sparring where they spar much like kickboxing sparring- with gloves and head/shin gear. Other schools have grappling workshops.

As PSYOPS stated: It all comes down to the individual. And to repeat what Dedicated1 said, whatever MA you train in and enjoy- that is the best one. I love what I trained in- BJJ has great techniques and I can't get enough of grappling and the feeling that comes from competition. Thaiboxing is great too. Their camps are designed for different goals. KM is a welcome addition to my repertoire. The difference between all three is that KM is an open system; it can transition all your skill sets and attributes from the other two into its system.
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#249478 - 05/01/06 07:20 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Hey Cronin,

You know, I wanted to ask you where you trained in BJJ and thai. So where did you train? I heard the thaicamp in Garden City is top-notch. Luke Cummo trained there for Thai, along with the Serra brothers for his bjj. I'd like to test my skills against you one day, although I'm sure you'd be more than a match for me with my paltry background.

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#249479 - 05/02/06 11:03 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
cronin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, NY
Hey SEAL,

I pm'd you....
_________________________
"Hard Work beats Talent any time Talent fails to work hard."

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#249480 - 05/09/06 04:53 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
BigIrish1975 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 5
I have been doing a bit of reading on this site for awhile now and figure I would respond to this thread finally. First I would like to say good deal and thank you for most everyone staying pretty level headed and respectful of each other.

Sure KM gets a semi bad rep cause of some of the marketing it does. But I would also say that a lot of people would hear about Krav Maga's history and not try it without knowing that some movie stars use it to stay in shape.

I go out soon to Krav national in L.A. to take the instructor course/testing. It's not cheap thatís true. But I like to teach and help others and I believe in the Krav System. I also trained in TKD for 7 years and have done Greco Roman/Freestyle and Folk style wrestling for 23 years along with BJJ for the last 2 years along with Krav for 2.5 years. I think Krav Maga in comparison has a lot of merit and effectiveness.

I will say in response to the people that talk about sparring. We do that in Krav. That is usually a level 2+ training skill. Level 1 is really just the pure basics. I spar no less then 2 times a week myself in Krav Skills then of course quite a bit of grappling.

As for the MMA stuff, well I would disagree. I do think Krav teaches you a very solid standup that can supplement your grappling and other forms of stand-up. I know first hand one of our level 4 Krav Instructors here in Austin, Texas "Steve Jimenez" is the current IFC heavy weight champion for MMA. A few more wins and he should get his shot at UFC. It's very effective in a combination of grappling.


-BigIrish
_________________________
Ryan "BigIrish" Krav Maga Instructor - Austin, Texas "Do what it takes to go home safely"

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#249481 - 05/09/06 10:01 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BigIrish1975]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Hey, thanks for the post and welcome.
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90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#249482 - 06/17/08 10:07 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BigIrish1975]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk
i neve knew it had a bad rep as far as content. its PR is a little comical at times...but as far as i knew its the best system for pure self defense...but i dunno i'm out of the 'what MA gets bashed this moths' loop....
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Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#249483 - 06/17/08 02:56 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: TKD-Skippi]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
2yr old thread skippi.


Quote:

but as far as i knew its the best system for pure self defense




Do all tkders think that?
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249484 - 06/17/08 03:33 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
To say something is the "best pure system" is to call such a style a product, much like a coat that is good protection against the cold that you don just before heading out.

Which is like saying, "Well, it looks as if the going might be a little rough tonight, I better put on the Krav Maga".

It is no better or worse than anything else. It is what you make of it. However, without sparring at its core, it's like deciding to carry bullets without a gun to fire them with (true of ANY art).

-John


PS: Two year old thread indeed! It's NEVER too old to be dredged up again, lol


Edited by JKogas, just for the hell of it (06/17/08 03:36 PM)

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#249485 - 06/17/08 08:33 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk
i dunno what all tkd people think. i just understood that it was all martial and no art....y'know only good for self defence....tkd or any traditional MA and you might spend years studying and training, KM you can learn pretty quick....

all i could see was the original post when i replied...*sigh* computers.....
_________________________
Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#249486 - 06/17/08 11:35 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Harlan does it all the time...

resurrecting old posts...

_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#249487 - 06/18/08 06:38 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JasonM]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk
I'm sure i have a joke about this....but i'm also sure it would be blasphemy... :-P
_________________________
Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#249488 - 06/18/08 01:40 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: TKD-Skippi]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

i dunno what all tkd people think. i just understood that it was all martial and no art....y'know only good for self defence....tkd or any traditional MA and you might spend years studying and training, KM you can learn pretty quick....

all i could see was the original post when i replied...*sigh* computers.....




This is the problem I've always had with KM and alot of mma in general. They think they can learn how to properly do things quickly. Sorry, it takes time to develop good techniques.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249489 - 06/18/08 02:31 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I dunno about that.

Maybe I am just an exception since I already had a karate background and excellent base before I tried Krav. But some, just take more than outhers.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#249490 - 06/18/08 09:16 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
It has everything to do with the student, some learn it very quickly, and some need more time. In the whole scheme of things, Krav Maga ( and the like) can be learned faster than most other styles.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#249491 - 06/19/08 12:12 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Dedicated1]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

It has everything to do with the student, some learn it very quickly, and some need more time. In the whole scheme of things, Krav Maga ( and the like) can be learned faster than most other styles.




That's most likely true. No kata to perfect, no tradition to adhere to,etc...Quicker to get to the actual 'combat.'
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249492 - 06/19/08 06:18 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

...Quicker to get to the actual 'combat.'





Brian, that's it exactly. That is how MMA does it as well. And from judging by what I've seen, you did the right thing by putting the word "combat" in quotations.

But as much as I respect you and your opinion, I have to disagree slightly with your stance on MMA.

I say slightly because I agree that it takes time to develop good technique. I just don't think that has anything to do with kata (not saying that you were implying otherwise).

I do believe that there is a lot of garbage MMA out there. However I believe this is because there are a lot of people fighting without solid fundamentals.

Technique is simple. Its simple to understand the importance of bringing a punch back along the same line it went out on. Its simple to understand the need to stay balanced when moving, etc.

The problem is, there are a lot of knuckleheads involved in pro fighting who have more brawn power than they do brain power. That doesn't mean MMA is bad, it just means that they are.

I believe wholeheartedly that MMA training is not a "style". This may help clear up some confusion (but might create more). Its just the blending of ranges, done without the trappings of a traditional martial art (or in my opinion, all the things that delay actual progress). This is why I believe that its possible to "create" a more functional fighter, more quickly, than through traditional means.

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#249493 - 06/19/08 03:11 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
John,

I don't think techniques are that simple. It takes time to develop a proper punch or kick. It's not as simple as moving it along the same line. With good technique, practice, and understanding of body mechanics more powerful techniques can be done.

Sloppy basics lead to sloppy techniques.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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