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#249467 - 04/28/06 09:20 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Two things in defense of Krav, or at least where I train in it - we spend TONS of time on proper punching and kicking. The idea is to not break your knuckles etc. in a real fight.

- I've seen it trained very live and those who could do it are fierce Unfortunately it's grown such a huge student base that there are many out there who simply aren't willing to take it to the level. Whatever though, I guess it's cool if people just want to lose weight and expand their dating pool. Like most arts, it's only as good as what you put into it.

#249468 - 04/28/06 11:05 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
SEAL Offline

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Like it or not, KM is growing ever-popular in the U.S., not unlike Karate's explosion decades ago. And as a result, one should not assume all KM schools are created equal. They should be, yes. But this is not the case. Like you said, some schools do train live. I think training live is one of the most important components for any fighting method. But unlike wrestling, boxing, BJJ, and other sports-style martial arts which offer live training, they do not prepare you for the pre- and post-fight. They also may not prepare you for adrenaline-induced stress when you're fighting for your life. I think an all-around fighter should possess the skills of a MMA, as well as combatative training. The two in tandem represent the complete package.

#249469 - 04/29/06 08:40 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree it is definitely what you put into it. And on a personal note, I wish everyone at my school put in 110%, but unfortunately, they want to loose weight, etc. I feel good knowing that when I am training, i give it my all. Abou the hardening of the knuckles, something I would like to get opinion on is, if we want to harden the knuckles, why wear wraps? I tried it, but stopped wearing them becuase they felt like they restricted my hands and i Like the feel of my raw hands hitting something. Plus, in the street, there are no wraps....Just my choice....
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

#249470 - 04/29/06 05:05 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JasonM]
Dedicated1 Offline

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Anyone new to punching should wrap, not just to prevent your knuckles from being opened, but more importantly for support in your wrists. After you have trained awhile, you can try to punch without wraps. If you punch properly, the risk of opening your knuckles is greatly reduced. Another thing to make sure of, is that your pad holder is holding properly. If you are not connecting square with the mitts, (if your hitting the mitt on an angle), you will also damage your knuckles.
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

#249471 - 04/29/06 10:25 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
SEAL Offline

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Here's a link to a video on Krav Maga. It should give you some idea (don't base an entire argument for/against KM based on this one video -- try it out and decide is the best approach).

#249472 - 04/30/06 07:32 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
That's pretty much all the Krav Maga that I've seen. It looks like just another typical demonstration. That's the problem....most people's idea of good training is what I see as just a demonstration. About like every Hapkido school I've ever been inside.

And it's really nothing different than anything else out there trained in a dead manner with compliant partners who "play along" to make sure you do everything right.

Does anyone else really wonder why I find fault with those methods? Doesn't it seem like a bad idea bordering on NEGLIGENCE to create such a powerful sense of false confidence in people?

That's the thing I'm most afraid of. I mean, when you never spar (for real), you really develop a notion that you're some super deadly BAD-@SS. Your EGO inflates and your (false) confidence spikes as well.

Perhaps there is some use for training in that manner. But if it never moves beyond that level of "resistance", I'd not put any faith in those people or their abilities.

Who knows.


#249473 - 04/30/06 08:58 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
SEAL Offline

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
I understand what you're saying. Again, that demonstration does not sum up Krav Maga. I know the Krav Maga schools in my area DO resistance, or live, training.

A perfect example of this "negligence", as you put it, is the art of Aikido. I'm not a big fan of it, and that's putting it lightly. And the arts I studied for years, Karate and TKD, are not much better.

It's important to do drills. These demonstrations do serve a purpose. But live training is essential. That's why western arts are revered, because they commonly employ live training (i.e. spanish knife fighting, fencing, wrestling, boxing, bjj).

#249474 - 05/01/06 11:45 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I hear you loud and clear J. Nothing is more humbling than getting in the ring. There is no way to mistake yourself for an ultimate badass after a few good shots in the face. Still though, I've always looked at demonstrations as what they are - demonstrations. They are an example of the how the technique could optimally be applied. Yes, they cancel out hundreds of X factors, but how else is a passive audience supposed to see the technique in action? And without knowing what perfect technique looks like, it's hard to visualize what you are striving for (even though it's ALWAYS gonna go out the window when you actually fight). It does all add up to something.

#249475 - 05/01/06 03:21 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
PSYOPS Offline

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25

I agree any school with teenaged Black Belts. Negligent!

This whole conversation sounds like MMA guys getting their panties in a wad over nothing. Krav Maga is a reality based "SELF DEFENSE" system. If it works for the IDF and LAPD, Department of Justice etc.. I think that civillians will learn from it. The fact that J.Lo and others have signed on does not devalue the system anymore than Zhang Ziyi's involvement in Kung Fu devalues the system.

If anyone is running their mouths about KM yet they have never even tried one class you should consider the source. This is an age old battle. "My style is better than your style". How boring is that?

BBJ is very popular because of the commercial success of UFC. None of that has anything to do with what happens in the street. Weapons defense, rape prevention, law enforcement, self defense or any of the things that Krav Maga directly trains for. Again MMA is fine and for the most part any training will help. It still comes down to the individual though.

#249476 - 05/01/06 03:52 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: PSYOPS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
It was just another 'demonstration' video for me too. I'd lke to see a video of what techniques are supposed to look like and then what they really look like. They work,I'm sure,but they don't look pretty.
Also the multiple spinning kicks were just

I did see a couple of karate moves in there,lol.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

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