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#249457 - 04/28/06 10:23 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: MattJ]
cronin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, NY
Iím with MattJ- with the new wave of popularity in the MMA scene, anything outside of that circle is considered useless. The MA world will always be overflowing with debate. Thatís a given. Those MMA practitioners (or any combat sport practitioners) use evidence of their effectiveness in the ring/cage as the basis of their argument. With KM, thereís no apparent evidence of their effectiveness (at least, not in the UFC) and having celebrities like J.Lo., Angelina Jolie and Shannon Elizabeth representing KM, you could imagine what the opposition comes up with given that fodder. And then itís down to the puerile question: Who would win in a fight? Jenny from the Block or Matt Hughes? Few of these folks know about Sam Sade or Amir Perets, but theyíre not on SpikeTV, so why should they know?

I think about what John Danaher said,ĒThe way you train is the way you fight. This simple point is important and can not be overemphasized.Ē Whatever art/system (repeat- WHATEVER art/system) that will allow students to practice their techniques in very nearly the same way they will apply it in a real fight, then it should be considered effective.




Edited by cronin (04/28/06 11:26 AM)
_________________________
"Hard Work beats Talent any time Talent fails to work hard."

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#249458 - 04/28/06 11:37 AM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
The bottom line is, whatever MA you train in and enjoy, that is the best one.......for you. If you enjoy it and YOU think it's effective than that's all that counts. It shouldn't be about who can kick whose butt. If you don't like what your training in, then it won't be effective. Krav has a bad rap because any ammo someone can get agaist it, they use. They talk about the money issue, and other things, but it's usually the people who aren't involved in Krav or who have never taken Krav that do all the talking. It is expensive to be an Instructor, but I think it is on a level field as far as tuition to be a student. So the people that talk about the money issue, don't teach then.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#249459 - 04/28/06 12:00 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Dedicated1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree. While I don't know the cost of being an instructor, I do know that what I pay as a student is reasonable in my area...:) And, I have trained TMA, Kung Fu, and now Krav and I love it all..You get out of it what you put into it.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#249460 - 04/28/06 01:29 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: cronin]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
IMO (and this is my opinion), the reason some people think MMA is the best is because it can be argued that it is the best out of the non-weapon based fighting methods (read: not including combatatives, kali, fencing, etc.). The fact that some arts are considered, well not usless, but less effective, is in part due to MMA's rise in popularity. You took Thai, which is the best standup art, minus the hands, capable for both street and the ring. Do you agree?

The truth is that there are very effective fighting systems out there and not so effective ones. It's not easy talking about it on this board because droves of people would be offended if I mentioned some of these arts by name. On another forum/site I frequent, it'd be a different story. But I digress.

The point is the line you quoted resonates very deeply. The problem is, in all honestly, how many arts can be deemed truly effective for a real street fight?

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#249461 - 04/28/06 03:03 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: SEAL]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Dedicated - I agree with you 100% that if you can't cut the bread, don't make the sandwich as far as the cost to instructors goes. This is a particularly nitpicky thing on my behalf because I have a certain amount of desire to teach Krav techniques, but I don't want to pay for the liscense and I really don't want my teachings to be plastered with logos for a worldwide organization. Besides, I only want to teach for non-profit orgs or seminars that are geared toward day-to-day self defense. I think the Krav training program is ideal for this, but again, I don't think it needs to be cashed in on so much.

SEAL - I hear you on the MMA thing. In fact, I don't even understand the concept of MMA, even though I currently spar under it's format. I always thought of MMA as just that (mixed martial arts) until the UFC explosion when it seemed to have become a distinct style with several variations that all fit within a set of rules. Many people don't realize that Krav is NOTHING like that and that it has no ring-reference in it's training. And it SHOULDN'T and I hope it never does. Watered-down Krav would be utterly pointless.

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#249462 - 04/28/06 03:42 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Quote:

Stormdragon




Brians- Sorry, I aint into that.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#249463 - 04/28/06 04:55 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Stormdragon, yeah right.

From an outsider looking in and not knowing all that much about Krav, I have a couple of questions.

How much time is spent teaching and practicing proper punching and kicking?

Is time spent learning proper body mechanics within each technique?

Is it a reactionary SD approach to specific situations or assaults?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#249464 - 04/28/06 07:35 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: BrianS]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Every class has combatives, you work on your stance, movement and punching in every class. There is also alot of time spent on the proper technique to punch and to kick. If you learn the proper way, you get more power and more weight into every kick or punch. As for the the defenses and combatives, they are all based on your natural reactions to attacks. This makes them easier to learn and more importantly, easier to remember.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#249465 - 04/28/06 07:50 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: Dedicated1]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
As MMA was brought up in this thread, I'll offer my viewpoints.

It isn't a particular 'art' that is going to make anyone a good fighter. It comes down to the individual and particularly, HOW an individual trains that is important.

Many people have false notions of what MMA means. Lets remember that MMA isn't a "style" per-se', it's a method of training which combines every "range". MMA in that sense is in a constant state of evolution as stylists from different backgrounds train in it. Thus it is like JKD in that, it is not a style and that the individual ultimately determines HOW he applies his fighting skills.

You could train MMA for the "street" and you can train it for the ring/cage. I personally supplement certain "street" aspects of it into the standard training. That will usually mean specific strategical as opposed to tactical differences.

Krav Maga is a method of training which appears to not use the concept of aliveness as much as those who train MMA do. I am still investigating this art however and will refrain from passing judgements until I have.

Of course, everyone is welcome to help "educate me" because I have to tell you, if I find something -- ANYTHING -- to be useful (functional) in any way, I'll take whatever I can from it and add it into what I'm doing already.



-John

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#249466 - 04/28/06 09:06 PM Re: Krav's "bad rep" [Re: JKogas]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Quote:

As MMA was brought up in this thread, I'll offer my viewpoints.

It isn't a particular 'art' that is going to make anyone a good fighter. It comes down to the individual and particularly, HOW an individual trains that is important.

Many people have false notions of what MMA means. Lets remember that MMA isn't a "style" per-se', it's a method of training which combines every "range". MMA in that sense is in a constant state of evolution as stylists from different backgrounds train in it. Thus it is like JKD in that, it is not a style and that the individual ultimately determines HOW he applies his fighting skills.

You could train MMA for the "street" and you can train it for the ring/cage. I personally supplement certain "street" aspects of it into the standard training. That will usually mean specific strategical as opposed to tactical differences.

Krav Maga is a method of training which appears to not use the concept of aliveness as much as those who train MMA do. I am still investigating this art however and will refrain from passing judgements until I have.

Of course, everyone is welcome to help "educate me" because I have to tell you, if I find something -- ANYTHING -- to be useful (functional) in any way, I'll take whatever I can from it and add it into what I'm doing already.



-John





Jeff Jimmo could have said this.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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