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#248750 - 04/29/06 09:12 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: MiSt]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
SEAL wrote:
Quote:

Ö.Having said all that, I could see Gracie submitting Matt from his guard. His stand-up is suspect and he certainly doesn't have a chin like Cro Cop or Fedor. If he were facing George St. Pierre, I'd feel more nervous for Royce.




It could happen. I wonít take anything away from Royce. Matt Hughes though, is just not another average MMA fighter. Thatís the problem Iím having with this. Royce should have came in and fought his way up. But he isnít - heís fighting the CHAMPION right out of the gate.

Truthfully, Royce probably deserves to fight him now instead of fighting his way up. At some point, LEGEND status has itís benefits and this is one such case. Besides, he probably wonít be fighting much if at all after this. Heís 39. I sort-of see this as a one last blast type of thing.



Quote:


But Matt is no slouch! He's gonna take it to Royce and hand him his first real loss in the UFC...via GnP.




I think thatís probably a fairly accurate assessment. Donít know if itíll be a GnP win, though I do think Royce will get stacked & smacked a bit. Its really hard to call this fight. I see it going to the judges for some reason. That COULD be bad news forÖÖ.

Hughes.

Where is the fight being held? SoCal? Royceís hometown and backyard??? HmmmÖ.

Can anyone say ďRubber MatchĒ?




MiST wrote:
Quote:


Royce's odds are looking slimmer and slimmer as this thread goes on. Does Royce need his opponent to be wearing a GI to be able to pull guard? Cause I remember JKogas pointed out that his takedowns aint too good...maybe it won't even go to the ground?





It will DEFINITELY go to the ground because thatís where Royce wants it to go. Royce wonít be able to get him there unless he pulls guard. Hughes however may not take him down right away. He may feel him out a bit upstairs first and throw a few leg kicks, etc. Royce will do the same thing.

The BETTER grapplers never just shoot in anymore. Theyíre better able to TIME their takedowns by setting them up first with punching and kicking. Then when the moment is perfect, BOOM, down the guy goes. Think Couture vs. Belford (in their very first fight) and youíll see what I mean.

I canít wait. This should be a good one, from my perspective. It could in fact be boring for many fight fans.


-John

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#248751 - 05/03/06 07:52 PM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: Dereck]
Blindsided Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 217
Quote:

Much respect for Gracie, he has earned it over and over. Hughes, I don't like his attitude since seeing the Ultimate Fighter 2 series, but he has earned his place and the title and he is good. Old vs. New. 100% that I do know, this is a money grabber for the UFC, plain and simple.

I see Gracie pulling guard after Hughes takes him down. Gracie will try to work things and creeping his legs up or looking for an arm bar from the bottom or something like this. Hughes will use a lot of strength and I believe he will pick him up and crash him to the matt repeatedly through the match. I think it will go two rounds and Hughes will come out the victor. Gracie will get his well deserved applause and Gracie will give props to Hughes and talk about he was the past and Hughes is the future and he wishes Hughes well. Hughes in his speech will give props to Gracie ... and everybody will be friends.

When it is all said and done, I have a hard time seeing the UFC putting up somebody that get beat Hughes at this time, though they would make oodles amount of money either way. When it is all said and done, St. Pierre deserves his title shot and should have had his opportunity already with Hughes ... but money got in the way for the UFC and Gracie was a better draw. IMO




Hughes beat Pierre for the title.

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#248752 - 05/03/06 08:39 PM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: JKogas]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Jhkogas,

Hi there, I think you it the nail on the head about Royce not being to athleticaly. Looking back at his fights he doesn't show good stand up at all and I believe that it is because as you said, he is a jujutsuka- jujutsu man and not really a fighter or sportsman.

Coming into the UFC he didn't prove he was the best fighter, he wanted to demonstrate how effective gracie jujutsu is and I believe he did, he showed his dominance on the ground game which is what brazillian jujustu emphasizes.

Just like in his latest book which is on Gracie jujustu and self defense. He states that Gracie jujutsu is not just about ground grappling and sport. It is about demonstrating that just because you have been taken to the ground and are in the bottom postion (gaurd) that you are not helpless, that there is a way out and even a way to turn your situation over to your favor. I believe this is the reason why Royce Gracie participated in the UFC. Ofcourse this is way before the Ground and Pound trend came.

Matt Hughes on the other hand is built for this sport, weight lifts and trains wrestling, stand up and jujutsu.

If I had to say out of the Gracies which one was born and bread for competition I would probablu pick Rickson Gracie, that guy was the $hi+.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#248753 - 05/03/06 10:17 PM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: JKogas]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
There won't be one loser. There will be thousands who proffered their opinions... fortunately, I only bet on thoroughbred racing.

If George Foreman can do it as a boxer, why can't Gracie?

The idea is right about old and new school. You can see the evolution just by looking at who the top flight fighters were and what they did to contribute to the development of MA in general.

Here in Australia, Danny Green vs Anthony Mundine is even more exciting and partsian.
_________________________
It takes a village to stone somebody to death.

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#248754 - 05/03/06 11:26 PM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: Mark Hill]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

If George Foreman can do it as a boxer, why can't Gracie?




Because the UFC is not boxing.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#248755 - 05/04/06 12:39 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: JoelM]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Maybe UFC but Randy Couture is still doing his thing at this age.

And George and Randy were about the same age.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#248756 - 05/04/06 12:42 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: JoelM]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
That's not a reason at all!

Highly conditioned athletes competing in a martial sport - different objectives...

From the criticisms of Gracie's chances John Kogas gave, stand up is harder for the semi-retired - so by that reasoning, Foreman should have got whupped.
_________________________
It takes a village to stone somebody to death.

Top
#248757 - 05/04/06 12:59 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: Mark Hill]
TylerW Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 76
Loc: washington state
Randy Couture retired though.

Top
#248758 - 05/04/06 04:39 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: TylerW]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Recently, but he was same age when Foreman became champ in boxing. I think one year less maybe.

Point is if Foreman can come back and be heavy weight champ, then so can Gracie; he can be UFC champ and this time actually fight guys in his own weight. Has anyone taken that into consideration? Gracie was fighting guys 50 pounds heavier than he was. Sometimes fighting 4 opponents in 1 day. You cannot dimiss this.

I think we all agree though that it sucks that any one of these 2 spectacular athlete/martial artist is probably going to lose. Am I the only one on this forum that is hoping for a spectacular fight with the ending of a DRAW.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#248759 - 05/04/06 07:10 AM Re: Gracie vs. Hughes [Re: Mark Hill]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

That's not a reason at all!




Yes it is! It's just not an answer that you like. Don't be an ass.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
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