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#248569 - 04/24/06 04:08 PM Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT
who238 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 18
All things being equal. Boxer vs KB/MT - KB/MT would win as boxer wouldn't know how to handle kicks and knees. Boxer would win if distance was closed.

All thing being equal and no kicks or knees, boxer would win due to training exclusively on fists.

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#248570 - 04/24/06 04:35 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
OK, it's settled then.

Is there a point to this thread?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#248571 - 04/24/06 04:48 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: MattJ]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Well, you can't argue with that. Well thought out, elequoently put, entirely too relevant, and profound in the extreme...

_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#248572 - 04/24/06 05:38 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

All things being equal. Boxer vs KB/MT - KB/MT would win as boxer wouldn't know how to handle kicks and knees. Boxer would win if distance was closed.

All thing being equal and no kicks or knees, boxer would win due to training exclusively on fists.







I've seen boxers eat UP Thai fighters. Better punching was the difference.

It wouldn't take very long to prepare a good boxer to face a muay Thai fighter. All he REALLY has to learn to deal with are the clinch elbows, and they aren't allowed in every fight. You can move IN on kicks pretty easily.

Hands deliver more pressure than feet/legs. More numbers delivered at a faster pace. Just simple physics.



-John

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#248573 - 04/24/06 06:22 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: JKogas]
GuitarNinja Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 182
Indeed, I dont care how good my kicks, my elbows, or knees are, mike tyson will always kick my ass, and someone half the skill/strength/size/speed would probaly do the same, lol.

Its just common sense that a good boxers hands will probaly always be better than anyone elses, regardless of style. Why ? Because they are training them, and only them, more time is spent on accuracy, speed, timing, power, technique, and overall hand fluency.

I cant wait til a world class boxer (ie: mayweather level ) jumps into a MMA bout. I think alot of people would be amazed at just how good world class boxers really are. Look how fast Vitor Belfort took out Vanderlei Silva at UFC Brazil, and hes not even half as good as most top ranked boxers.

This is not to say they would always win, because its not possible, no one has super powers, except maybe that guy in the Taiji video under the MA styles video section.

Either way, without everything your
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#248574 - 04/24/06 06:29 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: GuitarNinja]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Its just common sense that a good boxers hands will probably always be better than anyone elses, regardless of style. Why ? Because they are training them, and only them, more time is spent on accuracy, speed, timing, power, technique, and overall hand fluency.




Thatís why I believe ya gotta train boxing. I spend more time on my hands than anything else as far as stand-up goes (not that I'm a world class boxer or anything...).

Quote:


I cant wait til a world class boxer (ie: mayweather level ) jumps into a MMA bout. I think alot of people would be amazed at just how good world class boxers really are.




Limited window of opportunity. Boxing doesnít allow grappling. I just donít believe that as good as boxers can be, they couldnít control the clinch or ground. Liddell is able to do so only because heís a good wrestler.


Quote:


Look how fast Vitor Belfort took out Vanderlei Silva at UFC Brazil, and hes not even half as good as most top ranked boxers.




Belfort was aspiring to be on the Brazilian Olympic team. He wasnít that bad. Boxing isnít MMA however. Differences are huge.

I think Silva wins in a rematch.


-John

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#248575 - 04/24/06 07:26 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: JKogas]
muaythaiguy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 108
Loc: Michigan, USA
I train boxing hard! Really only focus on kick defense, but my clinch and hands are where I like to thrive. In every other aspect of my current mma training, I really only train defense, or how to get a dominant position in order to stand up again. I'm short, but I'd rather just be close on the stand up than be on the ground with a taller opponent.
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I'm the captain of my fate, I'm the master of my soul.

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#248576 - 04/25/06 11:18 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This thread is pointless, but still, I will let it run for a while see if it can be civilized. If it doesn't, you get the blame (Kidding dude, I'll just lock the thread).

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#248577 - 04/25/06 11:59 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
thankyou for clearing that up for me who

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#248578 - 04/25/06 02:08 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Supremor]
who238 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 18
Just wondering what boxer, KB and MT guys thought about this and how it influenced their training.

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#248579 - 04/25/06 06:11 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
A great boxer would beat a poor MT fighter. A fabulous MT fighter would beat a lesser boxer.

its the person, not the style, that wins a fight.

Love what you train in, strive to be the best you can, and you give yourself the best 'fighting chance' you can, irrespective of the art.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#248580 - 05/06/06 03:41 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
How about a fabulous boxer vs. a fabulous MT fighter?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#248581 - 05/06/06 04:20 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Stormdragon]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

How about a fabulous boxer vs. a fabulous MT fighter?




Would depend on who controlled the range and pace of the fight, and who had the better footwork/defence on the day.

again, style vs style hypothesis is useless.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#248582 - 05/07/06 02:28 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
It's hte fighter not hte style, and that's a fact. It's all heart strength and skill.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#248583 - 05/09/06 06:58 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Stormdragon]
eric235u Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 38
Loc: MA
i think it's kind of cool that geographically seperated areas came to similar training methods. it seems to validate these stand up styles we're talking about and make it difficult to compare theme in a style vs style match.

but some style vs style comparisons are fun if the styles are wildly different. i saw a funny video of Drunken Style Kung Fu vs. Kyokushin Karate and the Kung Fu guy got trashed. but boxer vs MT? it's the fighter.
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#248584 - 05/10/06 11:14 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Cord]
Tower_Bloodthorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 67
I wish I knew how other Muay Thai academies train. We have a reputation of being terrible at throwing punches. At the Muay Thai academy I attend, we work hard on our punches. A lot of the time, we have sparring matches with boxing rules. No knees, kicks or elbows and no clinch.

This whole arguement is flawed. Based on the information provided, my money is on the Thai boxer. Most American kickboxers and Western boxers don't condition their legs to take blows. One or two well placed kicks to the leg and they probably wouldn't want to fight anymore.

Also, Thai boxers have a range advantage. At long range we have our kicks, mid range we have punches, a few kicks and some possibility of a straight knee and up extremely close we have our elbows, knees plus the clinch. In a straight boxing match, my money would obviously go on the boxer. Anything else and I'd probably go with the Muay Thai guy. It's hard to punch from a clinch and a clinch can be tricky to escape if you don't know how to break it. American kickboxers have the best of both worlds. They train punches like a Western boxer and have Muay Thai's kicks with the exception of leg kicks and knees. It's anyone's game. I personally prefer Muay Thai. At least I prefer the way that my academy teaches it. I could very possibly hate it anywhere else.

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#248585 - 05/16/06 02:38 AM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: Tower_Bloodthorn]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
So basically most of the time the kickboxer will win due to most boxers' lack of experience with leg kicks... right? That's basically what I got from this video + your opinions.

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#248586 - 05/23/06 10:53 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: bin]
wauteep Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 10
Loc: USA
First of all the type of training one goes through affects how good of a Muay Thai Kickboxer or Boxer one is. You can't compare a really good boxer w/ a MT guy who has ok hand skills.

My Kru has legs of steel and really sharp knee and shin bones. If a boxer comes in he will literally disable your legs before the opponent can get a punch in. Though I'm not going to doubt a boxer if he can get into his comfortable range.

And someone brought up that a boxer can take on an MMA fighter, I really don't think so. If we're talking about a pure boxer, it's all gonna be meaningless if they get taken to the ground. Boxers aren't allowed to do much when they meet in a clinch situation, and don't know anything about ground skills.

The punches of a boxer are probably perfect but that won't let them adapt with any situation.

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#248587 - 05/23/06 10:57 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: wauteep]
wauteep Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 10
Loc: USA
I don't know why I typed all that...I don't like "style" comparisons. haha, but I train muay thai and I love it. that's all that matters.

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#248588 - 05/24/06 11:07 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: wauteep]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
one must not judge the art, but the artist

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#248589 - 06/04/06 02:51 PM Re: Boxer vs Kick Boxer/MT [Re: who238]
WildBill Offline
compassionate warrior

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 523
Loc: B.C. Canada
Boxing is the middle range for Muay thai. At this one range the boxer might have an advantage...exept that every thing the boxer does the MT guy should be able to do and counter from this range as well. The MT guy would also throw flying knees and some kicks from this range as well.

Close range is in the clench, knees and elbows, and devastating throws involveing throwing the person around by the head. ( and strecthing or even breaking the neck if they fight it )

I personally doubt that a boxer would stand much chance vs a thai fighter with the same level of trainning. His only chance would be a quick K.O. before the other guy got on his game.
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