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#247987 - 04/24/06 11:58 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: harlan]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Gun discussions will be tolerated as long as they do not get into pointless flame wars. This thread is not about the logic of gun ownership or gun laws, so get back on topic, please.

Those discussions go nowhere, and will end up getting locked quickly.

_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#247988 - 04/24/06 02:26 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: MattJ]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
I agree. I don't mind if the subject is kept low key and the discussion is respectful. This is turning into a firearms ownership debate, along with who's background training is better. We are all on a level field here, and the intent is to learn from each other.

How about we discuss how we would handle the situation unarmed?

First rule for me would be to identify who is at my front door before I open it. Plus I have two trained attack cats as backup...
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#247989 - 04/24/06 02:59 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: RangerG]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
I strongly agree, this was a nice talk about home invasions until the whole "Rambo" thing started. Let's move on.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#247990 - 04/24/06 06:25 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: RangerG]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I didn't mean to get into a discussion about whose background was better. I do find that when ever I mention that I believe the best tactical response to a home invation doesn't have to involve firearms, I get attacked as not knowing anything about firearms, or hating or being scared of firearms, so I usually mention my background.


I do not debate firearms ownership - I was attempting to raise the tactical pros and cons of firearm use for home defense. I believe that that is a valid argument.

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#247991 - 04/24/06 06:30 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: Dedicated1]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Hmm, for starters how about this - Krav seems to hold a very "do what you can with what you have" philosophy at the core of it's techniques. Personally, I think above guns, dogs, bazookas, surface to jerkface rockets and happy mines, the best thing to condition is your alertness and adaptability to any SD situation. So look at it this way - the kids are in bed, the wife is reading with her iPod on, the lights downstairs are out, the guns and stuff are locked in the safe (or you don't have any) and the front door gets kicked in - now what? Me, I would look around quick for anything I can pick up to use as a blunt weapon, throw or spray (aerosols make great distractions and can injure eyes). If you can keep your head together, you could come out of your bathroom with a flame thrower faster than the lone ranger could unholster his six shooter. To me, that's what Krav training is more about. Sharpening your wits more than your knives. That's why it isn't a "weapon art" unless you're learning it at a military level.
Of course, all this is borderline useless without a good 'ol family escape plan, which I'm surprised no one mentioned here. Keep in mind that if someone breaks into your house while you're there, chances are they are NOT afraid of you, they don't care if you're Task Force Ranger and you've killed 1500 people. Home invaders are there to take what they wnat and anyone who comes between is target practice.
And if you're really cool, you'd break out your katana and go Kill Bill on 'em!

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#247992 - 04/24/06 06:42 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: globetrotter]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Globetrotter,
didn't mean for our discussion to get out of hand. I'm not insulted. We just have differing perspectives on how this works. I'm sure if I was in Israel, I'd have a different perspective too.

Stay safe.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#247993 - 04/26/06 08:13 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: wristtwister]
Lokkan-Do Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Haven't been following the discussion but would like to add something.

In Toronto, Canada it is the homes that have guns and the owners that advertise them to close that get their homes robbed. That's right the attackers break into the houses to steal the guns then commit other crimes. A little ironic but that's how it is here north of the border.



I agree with getting a good description of the attackers, but a cousin of mine survived a home invasion by covering his eyes, shouting "I do not want to see your faces" and then telling the invaders to take anything they want. Is this a better strategy?

Luke

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#247994 - 04/26/06 09:21 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Lokkan-Do]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Believe it or not, people steal guns from home in the US too. Sort of a logical side effect of living in a place that has a lot of theft AND guns

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#247995 - 04/27/06 01:43 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: ShikataGaNai]
MartialMack Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Nashville
For one, having your home invaded seems like a pretty rare event unless you live in the inner city of a major city... it could probably be equated to getting struck by lightning for most.

But I think it's common sense stuff though: keep your house locked, always check to see who's at the door and be up on your disarming techniques (which also means knowing how to fire a gun well). The argument here for me is that the closest defensive weapon to use is the attacker's.

Personally though, I don't think you can take any chances. If someone comes in your house with a gun, is it worth it to wait around and see if they'll shoot you or not? The best thing I think is to know your house and have a plan... beyond your training, your best advantage is that you know your house better than anyone else. I rather like the idea of drilling your own scenarios in your own house. Different agencies and militaries have mock environments that they build for training... I'd think if you're Secret Service or something it's not about entry training, but how to defend against an entry.

In addition, the element of surprise from your side is a huge advantage as well. Most of these people don't break into a house expecting someone who knows Krav Maga... and since these guys are very often "buddies," the other potentially armed guys might think twice about shooting in the direction of his buddy who is being disarmed. Drill using your newly disarmed attacker as a "shield" -- hold them up. Maybe it's wishful thinking; I don't know. But it could be a good diversion to point their gun/s away from your family so that you can discharge defensive shots if need be.

Just some thoughts...

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#247996 - 04/28/06 04:21 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Lokkan-Do]
tuxette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Norway
I usually stay away from these kinds of discussions, but I just can't resist adding this little bit of information...

In places like Canada and Norway, you see more guns per capita (or something like that) than in the US, but at least over here, the guns are more to protect (or use) against dodgy wildlife than people ;-)

I doubt they'll teach defense against moose attacks in Krav Maga class though :-P
_________________________
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