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#247977 - 04/23/06 11:16 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Dedicated1]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
a few months ago I read a magazine article where 4 security experts were interviewed about how they protected their houses. 2 ex-cops, 2 ex-secret service. 3 of the 4 didn't keep firearms in their houses, 2 of those had nightsticks. the only one who keep a firearm in his house had a single 9 mm in a safe that he used for bodyguard work.

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#247978 - 04/23/06 11:17 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: globetrotter]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Obviously we disagree, and since I have no idea what your basis of opinion is, other than disagreement, you cite nothing except another opinion of how to defend one's home.
Nothing wrong with your weapons selections, but your access to them is quite bad.

I spent two years working in a prison and another two years working undercover, so I know how to handle both my guns and the kind of situations where they might be necessary. I seldom if ever shoot my kids, my wife, or my neighbors, and do consider it insulting that you seem to think that because someone handles firearms differently from you that they're wrong.

Quote:

I have 2 large tear gas blasters and 2 hard resin 24 inch batons around the house




Have you ever used mace or tear gas? It disables everybody in the area, not just the perpitrator, and the last thing you need with an assault defense is blurred vision. I also have batons all over the house, and use them regularly in jujutsu practice so I'm not just swinging wildly and breaking the lamps with them. If you've got them, I hope you practice with them.

As for my weapons selection, take a look at what most major police agencies are carrying now... 9MM or .40 cal, which are my two "base guns". The .357 and .44 are if more firepower are necessary... and the knives... a perpetrator would never see them until they were stuck or cut with them.

Everyone in my house is an adult now, and they've been trained to stand down in any kind of home assault situation and let me handle it. Everybody except my Shepherd knows not to attack... and he only does when told to...

Quote:

I don't want a gun in the house.



Well, that's your preference, not a hard and fast rule for everyone else. I like having guns around, especially after being personally introduced to all the scum that's floating around out there hitting on innocent victims. How do you know that someone isn't going to kill you?.. the answer is you don't . If they're in my house with a drawn weapon, they're most likely going to die there. I'd give myself better odds at staying alive than you, if for no other reason, because I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an intruder.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#247979 - 04/23/06 11:31 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Dedicated1]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

A criminal may rob your house with a crowbar, but walk out with a rifle or pistol.




...not without a 65 pound Shepherd chewing on his leg first...

As for finding the weapons, the uproar at my house would cause more than enough problems to prevent a burglary. Even my car alarms go off if somebody gets into my house, and while the guns are readily accessible, they aren't easily found. You have to know where to look...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#247980 - 04/23/06 11:50 PM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I don't mean to be a castle crasher, but how exactly by telling the whole world you have firearms hidden in every room make your place safer from burglary? lol...sorry, just didn't see the wisdom there.

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#247981 - 04/24/06 02:14 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I think a criminal would rather break in a home where he knew noone was home or knew noone was armed. If he knows people are home and armed he's an idiot or Dadon1. If you do choose to have a firearm please do yourself a favor and get safety and handling training.

I like the sticker on my dad's front window "Bad Dog,Good Shot" it says it all.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#247982 - 04/24/06 06:55 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
It's possible it's a set-up...

Oh, did I mention the poisonous snakes or security system???


_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#247983 - 04/24/06 07:56 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
hehe...I'd feel sorry for a poor kid coming to your house to pick up his prom date and get taken down by a repelling recon team from the trees. "drop the corsage and kick it over here! I said drop it, scum!"

clearly I watch too many movies...sorry to derail.

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#247984 - 04/24/06 09:46 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: wristtwister]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
Quote:

Obviously we disagree, and since I have no idea what your basis of opinion is, other than disagreement, you cite nothing except another opinion of how to defend one's home.
Nothing wrong with your weapons selections, but your access to them is quite bad.

I spent two years working in a prison and another two years working undercover, so I know how to handle both my guns and the kind of situations where they might be necessary. I seldom if ever shoot my kids, my wife, or my neighbors, and do consider it insulting that you seem to think that because someone handles firearms differently from you that they're wrong.

Quote:

I have 2 large tear gas blasters and 2 hard resin 24 inch batons around the house




Have you ever used mace or tear gas? It disables everybody in the area, not just the perpitrator, and the last thing you need with an assault defense is blurred vision. I also have batons all over the house, and use them regularly in jujutsu practice so I'm not just swinging wildly and breaking the lamps with them. If you've got them, I hope you practice with them.

As for my weapons selection, take a look at what most major police agencies are carrying now... 9MM or .40 cal, which are my two "base guns". The .357 and .44 are if more firepower are necessary... and the knives... a perpetrator would never see them until they were stuck or cut with them.

Everyone in my house is an adult now, and they've been trained to stand down in any kind of home assault situation and let me handle it. Everybody except my Shepherd knows not to attack... and he only does when told to...

Quote:

I don't want a gun in the house.



Well, that's your preference, not a hard and fast rule for everyone else. I like having guns around, especially after being personally introduced to all the scum that's floating around out there hitting on innocent victims. How do you know that someone isn't going to kill you?.. the answer is you don't . If they're in my house with a drawn weapon, they're most likely going to die there. I'd give myself better odds at staying alive than you, if for no other reason, because I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an intruder.







WW - sorry if I was a little insulting, frankly, I find that when people arm themselves in the way that you have, it usually means that they do not know that much about weapons. we obviously have our own experiences and backgrounds, and you have gotten a different persepctive than I have on how to arm yourself.

just a couple of quick answers

1. my background is military and in security- I was in a good unit of the israeli military, and I went on to train soldiers and security people in other parts of the world, and then to bodyguard for a little while. doesn't make my views any better than yours, but I do know a little something about how to secure a building. as importantly - I have been involved in what is essentially home invasion from the "badguy" side dozens if not hundreds of times.

2.I sincirly do not want to offend you, I find that many people I do know keep weapons that have very serious firepower and ammo that is very hard in residential neighborhoods that have closely placed buildings made of sheetrock and pressed lumber. effectivly, many people have fireamrs that if they fired them in their house they would go into a nieghbors house. that scares me.

3. I go by a relativly simple principle - if they want me dead, I am dead. believe me, if somebody wants to bust into your house in the middle of the night to kill you, and he knows what he is doing, you are dead (actually, if he really wants you dead, he'll get you on your way to work, but that is another story) it is't that easy for a middle aged family man to wake up at 3 am and get involved in a firefight with somebody who wants to kill him. also, in my town, there have been 2 murders in 20 some years, both were when a gangster from ny city got lost and got into a conflict with somebody on the road. so I am not preparing for a violent home invasion, I am preparing for a teenager, or a burglar, or a drug addict.

4. you are right, you are better prepared than me, for more possiblities. but I think that if you were to take into account the risk of having he weapons around and the risk of the weapons being stolen, and calculate it with the marginal advantage of being so prepared, I am not sure how the calculation would run.

5. I know that american leo doctrine leans towards larger guns. I still like smaller ones. I would rather put 4 9mm rounds into somebody that 1 .45. but that is a personal thing - that is how I was trained. I didn't encournter that many enemies over 200 pounds. what I would say is that having too many different types of firearms around is a mistake, in my opinion. having been in a number of firefights, with very very well trained people, I believe that simplicity is extremly important. I wouldn't have 2 different ammo firearms for use in home defence - if I wanted to keep other firearms around the house, I would keep them seperate from the ones I was using.

6.tear gas - I have used tear gas a lot. here is the thing. I want a home invader out of my house. I don't want to kill him, or capture him, or hurt him. I will do those, if I have to. but the object of the excersize is to get him out of my house. so what better way then to make my house extremly unpleasant? here he is, full of adrenaline and breathign hard, full of teenage testostorone, and suddenly he is engulfed in a cloud of gas, can't breath, he is coughing, crying, makby a little throwing up, and here is a screaming 280 pound guy popping him on the knee with a stick, what is he going to want to do at that point? stop to try to grab something? or get the [censored] out of my house? so, we will all, family included, be on the lawn coughing and cursing, but I will have acheived my goal. and, yes, there may be some damage to my furniture and carpets from the gas, but have you seen furniture and drywall after having a few rounds put through them, or a guy bleed out on them? as importantly, if my kid plays with the gas, it will hurt but not kill him. so I don't have to worry about leaving it very handy. I can have the front hall of my house in a cloud of gas 3 seconds after waking up at 3 am.

7. batons - yes, I practice with them. one of the advantages I feel to my plan is that I can easily do dry runs with it. I am pretty good with a stick, and feel very comfortable with it. I find, and again not to be insulting, that almost nobody is good at fireing a powerfull firearm in a modern american multi-story house. most people who have guns are better shots at paper than I am - I haven't fired a gun in 10 years. what I could do, back in the day, was work in a 3 directional fireing drill, including going up and down flights. even with that, I never had to fire in a drywall house. are you comfortable that you could fire up a flight of stairs, or down a flight of stairs, and that you are always aware of where your round will finish its path in your house?

8. having or not having a gun in the house - of course, this is a private choice. if I didn't have a 4 year old son, I would probrably have a single 9mm handgun in a touchpad safe. maybe 2, in diferent safes. with a son in the house, the cost/benifit doens't add up. I am not against guns, it is my opinion that they are less of a benifit in home security than people want to believe.

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#247985 - 04/24/06 11:31 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios [Re: cronin]
sadders Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10
Reading this I am so glad to live in the UK where owning a handgun for any reason is ileagle. No decision to make as to what guns I have to hide arround my place.

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#247986 - 04/24/06 11:42 AM Re: Home Invasion scenarios: guns [Re: sadders]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Just asking: it doesn't state it in the KM forum rules....but I thought that gun discussions at FA.com were not allowed? Can someone clarify for me?

Thanks.

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