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#247521 - 04/24/06 06:07 PM Re: rumours? [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA

Seriously though - if anyone wants to call themselves an FMA "purist" (I know I don't claim it), then the Dog Brothers gatherings should not be a shock to them. Kali has a long standing tradition of brutal training and even though you can more often than not find kinder, gentler instruction, the old school is still out there. My two instructors both have bone splinters and old dislocated digit injuries from their years of stick fighting. They have both trained in the PI and said it was the most physically jarring experience of their lives. There are even schools that practice with live knives there (allegedly). I'm not saying any of this is good or bad, but condemning it as stupidity is simply short sighted. For some of us, soft targets, forms and drilling techniques is not enough. That's all that's to it.

#247522 - 04/25/06 03:05 AM Re: rumours? [Re: JKogas]
SEAL Offline

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
I must say I certainly do not appreciate the manner in which you're speaking to me. I sense sarcasm in your words, but I could be wrong; so I apologize if I am. For the record, I never condemned the Dog Brother's training. If that's what you're implying, I suggest you re-read what I wrote and tell me where I said I disapprove of their entire training. All I said was practicing with minimal protection is stupid and I stand by it. Matter of fact, I'm exiting this conversation because you will not persuade me and I probably won't pursuade you -- it's just pointless. I'd rather agree to disagree and move on.


Edited by SEAL (04/25/06 03:17 AM)

#247523 - 04/25/06 08:01 AM Re: rumours? [Re: SEAL]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I was joking about the padded sticks and plate mail bit...

No offense was intened. (I know that not everyone gets my humor around here).

I understand where you're coming from and you're completely entitled to your views. Don't take my (sometimes idiotic) attempts at humor for disrespect.

I DO like the Dog Brothers but that's me. You're free to follow your own path.



#247524 - 04/28/06 09:51 PM Re: rumours? [Re: JKogas]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
1st of all, I'm not a tuff guy nor have I ever tried to represent myself as one. In past threads, I've said that if MA were taught as they were meant to be taught, I wouldn't be teaching. The main reason I teach is because there's so much junk out there, I hope my humble instruction will steer some away from that junk. However, I've paid my dues w/ a range of injuries from bothersome to serious so there.

I have the utmost respect for the DB because they do that which I'm not able to do. By putting themselves on the line, they live MA the way real MA is meant to be. No obligatory black belts, no social promotion, no XMA-like performances. This is not stupid but maybe you're harboring some envy.

BB - Re: the PI trip...
(my wife is Filipino so give me a bit of latuitude here) You'll either encounter situation A or B.

Sit. A: "Who dis Pinoy-wanna-be tink he is?" You'll find yourself w/ many "Pasa" from all the "Suntok" & "Hataw" (Arnis).

Sit. B: "Better take it easy on dis "Lampa" so he'll take us to Jolly Bee after."

No, really, have a great trip! One day I hope to take some Arnis instruction in Cebu.


#247525 - 04/29/06 10:14 PM Re: rumours? [Re: hedkikr]
mike-a Offline

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: auckland, new zealand
I like the DB approach, as it does trample on a few sacred cows in the FMA community, for example:-

- The effectiveness of the majority of disarms.
- The fact that people can take a significant ammount of punishment to the body, and not be stopped.
- That light sticks are really going to do any damage.

Obviously, it's not 100% realistic. Headgear and gloves make a *lot* of difference to the effectiveness of your shots. That said, the majoriy of folks are actually able to take a good shot with a light stick pretty much anywhere on the body, and maybe one to the head. But a heavy stick (kamagong, bahi, steel pipe) maybe not.

It should be a personal choice thing. Where I train we do a lot of sparring with padded sticks and light gloves and headgear.(These sticks still hurt a fair bit, only slightly less that light rattan, but with power behind them and a well-placed shot to a good area - BAM!) Occasionally we do some live stick., but things tend to slow down a bit. The padded sticks pretty much let us fire off at full power. Sure you get a few welts and bruises, but nothing worse than empty-hand sparring, or even boxing. But the other day I went to a school where they didn't wear headgear for padded stick sparring. I conciously "pulled" my attacks and it really messed up my game. My timing was way out because all the power shots I'd been using at full steam weren't being used, and the opponent was reacting in a completely different way. The pain of being hit makes them move differently, and if you train to be reacting with this, it messes you up when it doesn't happen.

If you don't get a realistic response, you don't know how things will happen in, erm "practical application" outside the school.

If a major goal of your training isn't to be able to apply your art practically, this won't be a concern. If it is, it will most definitely be one.

In the end, it is stick-fighting. 2 guys with sticks, which is not all that likely to happen in real life.

The other thing, of course, is the application of blade-based training...

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