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22738 Members
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Max Online: 307 @ 02/21/13 09:36 AM
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#247335 - 04/19/06 01:14 AM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Veteran
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
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OH YAEH! WELL MARTAL ARTZ R TEH SUK!  MattJ recently posted a link to a video which may show evidence of what the professor was speaking of. http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=2061 Look at the comment directly under the video box. 
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#247338 - 04/19/06 07:09 AM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
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Brian's signature says it all: "When all is said and done there's alot more said than done." 
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#247339 - 04/19/06 08:12 AM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Newbie
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 21
Loc: France/Swiss I'm Dutch though
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Osu!
I'm in total agreement with this guy. Well found.
Pat
_________________________
"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
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#247340 - 04/19/06 08:34 AM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Member
Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Lately, I’ve been noticing a lot of verbal sparring on the Internet. Most of the time it’s by someone who chooses to stay anonymous or uses a synonym. Either way the respect I once saw for those who paved the way is now being challenged at every step and its usually by someone who wasn’t there nor would they be able to handle that type of training environment.
Sorry. Totally don’t buy into this.
An interesting contradiction. First of all, he says that these challengers hide behind a screen of anonymity, and yet he these goes on to say that they weren’t there and wouldn’t be able to handle that kind of training environment. If they are anonymous, how would he know that???
Sorry. Sounds like he is just ticked off because his old paradigms are being challenged. Which, buy the way, is a wonderful thing. I think every martial artist should have their basic principles challenged. No better intellectual exercise to go through than having to re-examine all those little things you have come to believe.
Quote:
The Internet is not the mat and some of these paper tigers will never understand real martial arts and real martial artists. The superiority of a martial art is not proven by words on the Internet, enough said.
I agree in part, but this is the age old argument made by someone who cant support their arguments in an intellectual format. Agreed, the internet is not the mat, but if his arguments cant stand on their own, how is that the fault of those challenging his perspectives? If the superiority of a martial art cannot be proven by words, then why argue about it on the internet in the first place???
Quote:
Secondly, people need to continue training, no matter how old or injured they become, they need to train. Too many Black Belts are sitting on the sidelines and observing rather than participating.
TOTALLY agreed!!!!! God love ya!!!
Quote:
Additionally, it angers me that within the Martial Arts we have so much squabbling and stupidity under the cover of anonimity. If someone has something to say, say it and don’t hide under some code name on the Internet.
What name I choose to use when I post is completely my business, and no business of anyone I happen to be talking about, or to. As a matter of fact, with the number of nut cases running around, I think anyone who posts under their real name is just asking for trouble. And again, I come to the fact that what you choose to call me, or what I call myself is irrelevant to any intellectual discussion. Any arguments should be able to stand on their own, regardless of who is making them.
Quote:
A good friend of mine was recently attacked on the Internet and the attacker left this disrespectful and disgraceful statement on a message board without a name attached. This has no place in the Martial Arts.
I do agree that personal attacks are far too common and far too accepted a means of communication over the net, however…
News flash for ya Prof. This isn’t the martial arts. This is a message board on the internet. Do I like the careless social interaction that often accompanies internet discussions? Not one little bit, but it is a fact of life. If anyone goes to a martial arts forum and expects it to be run like a martial arts school, they are in for an ugly surprise.
If the good Professor doesn’t like the format, he can certainly choose not to participate, but I don’t see it changing any time soon, exactly because it is the internet, and to a large degree anonymity (and all that goes with it) is the order of the day.
G
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!
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#247341 - 04/19/06 11:51 AM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific
Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15629
Loc: York PA. USA
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Interesting post, wristtwister. I think the professor and Galen both make good points. People are entitled to their opinions, but they have far less weight with me if they do not offer any background or personal context when discussing. I am not clear about his point about keeping training, however. That is a given, and was a problem long before the internet was popular. How many of us have known folks that get to XYZ belt rank and *POOF* disappear from training, only to talk endlessly (in person or on the net) about what they did. 
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin
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#247342 - 04/19/06 12:19 PM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: MattJ]
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like a chiropractor, only evil
Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
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I thought that Professor Cates has about the best perspective on real martial arts of anyone I've ever met. He was business partners with Don Nagle (Isshin Ryu) and trained with some of the best people in American martial arts history. He trained Olympic competitors and was active in the formation of the USA's national judo programs. Like he said, the internet isn't the mats, and a lot of the "intellectual" internet martial artists have never set foot on them or had to block a punch to keep from getting their teeth knocked out, so their credibility is what is questionable... not the real players. They are like generals that never have been in a battle, so their perspectives, while they might be "intellectual" are way off in practice. A good old fashioned "a$$-kickin'" changes a lot of perspectives. I've said many times "it's all about intent"... if your intent is to make somebody look intellectually foolish and you're good at crafting your arguments to do that, then you better stick to the boards. On the mat, you'll get your a$$ handed to you. The old saying that "old age and treachery will defeat youth and skill" is true... so let's keep it real, and remember that one of the reasons there are "old martial artists" is because they've been there and back... not just for the argument, but for the fight. 
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"
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#247343 - 04/19/06 12:58 PM
Re: Professor Cates "nails it"
[Re: wristtwister]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
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Hello Wristtwister:
Thank you for posting Mr. Cates perspective for us!
Many may disagree, but I side with Galen in many respects on this matter. The internet is a place to present IDEAS. No matter how much you wish or NEED to "show me" the "reality" of ones effectiveness or "correctness" of your views... unless I can do so intelligently, coherently they do not stand up!
And one must be obscenely careful NOT to bolster whatever ones position/idea with ones ranking. That too is completely irrelevent. Whatever ones experience(s) or their lack thereof, throwing them to support ones perspective is dangerous stuff. Do not try and sway/influence me with your "experience" the idea is either well presented and understood or they are not. One is either able to present in a depthful manner or one is not.
For a teacher that is the nature and true responsibility of their job.
If one is unable to be articulate, unwilling to engague in DISCUSSION, hone ones presentations of ideas large and small... the internet is the wrong place for "you". My titles whatever they might be are 100% superflous.
Here (as in the ~real world~) what matters is do I know what I am doing. Do I understand my practices, my art(s) sufficently so that I can talk about it with others and explain to them my understandings... engague with them in dialogue, debate, gentle probing explore their views and perspectives.
Squabbling, stupidity unfortunately is the nature of much of our species. I too have such flaws in abundance. The internet allows many to share, some to vent, many to learn or be gently challenged. The mind is a wonderful thing, and the most effective when it is OPEN. If I am venting or troubled, confused my cyber annonimity allows me to be direct in ways that in person, or in other roles may not be possible face to face. If someone wishes to know who I am, or something of my background merely ask. I cannot speak for trolls or children, but if the professor, or his friend had ~real issues~ of offensive behavior or rudeness they should speak with the individual themselves.
It is heretical on my part I acknowledge, but I can do nothing about a past of which I was not a part. Many practices of the past are easily debatable and well should be. Because something was done ~long ago~... does that mean whatever that might have been then is somehow the only "correct" way? Tough does not mean smart necessarily.
Forgive my foolish ramblings,
J
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