I imagine this info applies to any sport having impacts to chest...In any event, it's rare, but possible. something to think about.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060407/hl_hsn/chestprotectorsdontprotectyoungathletes

We had a death in one of the youth associations my son played in as a kid, and that whole situation is one of those "unpreventable" accidents that happens. You would think though, that with the advances in foam technology and plastics that there would be a way to prevent these deaths, other than stopping the activities.

Our county youth association now requires EMS workers to be stationed at the county parks during league games, but don't require them at practice. It'll probably take another death before that happens.

Tragic...

If a baseball can do that by freak chance...is it reasonable to assume a punch/palm could have the same effect?

Force delivery is what it is... I don't think it matters if it's a soda straw that hits somebody if it delivers enough force at the right time to disrupt the heartbeat. There is a technique called a "snapping palm strike" where you touch your opponent just to the side of the left nipple, and then do a snapping palm strike inward to the area where the rib cage and breastbone meet just over the heart.

The location and technique appear to me to be designed to do just what we're discussing here... disrupt the heart rhythm. I wouldn't teach a technique like that, though... too much like a Dim Mak strike...

Ed,

Dr. Harper (who's trained with us for years) informs us the operating mechanism is a shock to the chest at the exact 1/50,000 of a second that a person's "T" wave is at the top of its crest. A shock at that moment can cancel the "T" wave and stop the heart beat. He says unless there is instanteous medical attention it's almost always too late.

Of course the big thing is the serindipity involved, or blind luck, as no one can predict when that strike must take place.

The prohibition of strikes into the chest is not so much as for that risk as the other damage that can occur.

As a commited instructor to the young (and the less than young I guess too), in general there is little training purpose to utilize impact training.

For one thing the youth growth plates are on the ends of their bones and impact could damage those growth plates. Likewise preparing their bodies to take a shot, likely from an older and heavier opponent makes little stragetic sense either.

Rather their training should concentrate on the honorable art of not being there.

100% agreed. The only impact training my kids get is when I let them hit me....or when I'm not looking.

They've started studying Aikido after 2 years of Shorin...first month of Aikido and they said they like it better than Karate. blasphemy! lol {Kids know Dim Mak when it comes to knowing just how to hurt their parents....now wheres my chest protector and defibulator}

Actually Ed, old style Aikdio has atemi, or specific pressure point striking. Usheiba's older books (republished in the past 10 years) specifically show strikes as set up techniques for throws and locks.

The Atemi strike (suspiciously akin to karate's) were stop hits, to create an opening to lock/project.

Continuing that issue, those books were
republished by Stanly Pralin in Japan, and in Europe Japanese instructors were known to tell their students they can't buy those books, because their art had moved beyond such things.

So watch out what you're kids are doing.

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Actually Ed, old style Aikido has atemi, or specific pressure point striking. Usheiba's older books (republished in the past 10 years) specifically show strikes as set up techniques for throws and locks.

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Victor, I took a drubbing in another forum about "the old style of Aikido" and it's relationship to Daito Ryu. While you and I both know its "base art roots", there are those here who take exception to any comparison of Aikido with jujutsu, and certainly not karate. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but discussing "the old style" bought me a beating in the other forum.

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The Atemi strike (suspiciously akin to karate's) were stop hits, to create an opening to lock/project.

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Here, I agree for the most part, but with a difference. The "aikido striking" is usually a "pendulum-type" strike done with what is taught as "tick-tock" timing off of a "sword step"... but there is plenty of striking in Aikido, and much of it (as you say) to specific "hitting points" taught in Kyusho Jitsu (although they are "named differently).

I'm just glad I'm stuck in that "old style" stuff... my good friend Toyoda Sensei used to give me quite an education in that aspect of the art, and we both loved it. It's just a sham that the art's "moved on" beyond those things... Oh, that's supposed to be " shame " isn't it??? My bad..

My studies in Aikido were from an instructor whose father began training in Shotokan and Aikido in Japan in the 30's and also incorporated their local Siliat/tjimande into the mix.

But as aikido changed (not necessarily evolved) many practices were discontinued, and almost all arts in the modern era are in the same boat.