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#243411 - 04/06/06 08:51 AM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: TeK9]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
A point that should be emphasized is that style is an important facet of a MA career, but you should select the teacher more than the style.

A fixation on style implies that there is quality uniformity that does not necessarily exist. An analogy would be to that your selection process is proceeding rather like selecting a new car. You are reading up on all the advertising literature and preparing to make a selection based on that. With cars, though, the uniformity of the different manufacturer's products allows you to select a car with a great deal of assurance that virtualy ANY car you find (of that make and model) will be like any of the others in that group.

Picking a place to train is more like looking for the builder to build you a custom car. This is a very special handmade product, one of a kind. In this, you need to be looking for the right builder (right down to the dojo level). It's pretty safe to assume that all Fords F150's are alike, but you can't safely assume that all affiliates of a major style or ryu are the same. You certainly can't assume that the branch dojos of the affiliates are the same.

If you live in a place that is blessed with tons of schools, you might luck out and be able to pick a specific style and then be able to select the best teacher within the style. If you live where I do, you just have to go school to school, meeting the teachers and observing the programs. Once you settle on the best teacher in the area, you just hope its not piano that he teaches.

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#243412 - 04/06/06 10:26 AM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Joss]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
As Ed and Shoshin have stated, you may well receive some good training, but I would highly doubt it to be Shorin. Or even primarily Okinawan for that matter.

I have never in my life heard of a "Master" Dan Tosh associate with any Shorin Ryu-ha, and a 9th Dan is a pretty rare commodity. I'm no expert, but I do know a few, I would be somewhat wary.

Also, as stated by others, any real Okinawan training regardless of style or Ryu-ha will be very valuable.

Good luck with your research. You appear to be doing all the right things.

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#243413 - 04/06/06 08:04 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: JohnL]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
JohnL,

Woah, thanks, I hadn't even noticed that. I just went into the school for a few moments, then I went straight home and checked out the web site. I focused on Dan Tosh's history. Because they have him on many of the vid clips. I hadn't even looked at his instructors credentials.

Ed,
Your message was kind of a bummer, now I've got to do more investigating. I was hoping I found an authentic Okinawen style.

Out here there are several Uechi schools that I can chose from, some of the schools look very nice. But honest to god, I feel as if I am more knowlegable in self defense than any of the instrcutors. Sometimes I feel I shouldjust take up Gracie Jujutsu, a new school just opened up in my town 2 years ago. Although I got this thing, where I have a phobia about me rolling around on the floor with other men, and the touching, and the sweat. Excuse I need to shower, just the thought of getting that close to someone of the same sex freaks me out.

LoL totally kidding, well slightly, I wrestled when I was in high school. I just dont find ground fighting a big deal enough to want to pay someone to teach me it.

Darn it...I was hoping I found a real shorin ryu school.
Here is the guys web site, maybe it will help www.shorin-ryu.biz
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#243414 - 05/03/06 05:30 AM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: TeK9]
Renshig Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 3
JohnL,
I happend to find this forum today while trying to sleep. So excuse me if I wonder off from what I am saying from time to time. I am a student of Master Tosh. It is amazing how some people in this forum find it hard to believe that Master Tosh is a legit Master of the Arts. Is it really a rare thing to be a 9th or 10th dan? There are a lot of masters I have never even heard of that are in different systems. Does that mean they are not legit? I think not. Master Tosh is the Soke of ShorinKwoonDo Ryu Shorin-Ryu. He was presented the sokeship and also his 9th Degree creditionals at the 1998 San Jose State Gasshuku Masters Seminar. The Ceremony included a Demonstration by Master Tosh of tuite ( Secrete Kata technique) and then a powerful brick break with his fist. Dai Shihan Sig Kufferauth, 10th degree black belt and Soke Sid Campbell, headmaster of the World Okinawan Shorin-ryu Karatedo & Kobudo Association Co-chaired the Blackbelt Council that certified and delivered the new rank.
I bet you guys have never heard of these two mentioned above either huh? I do not know what most of you guys here need or want in a person to consider him/her a true expert/master. Perhaps Shorinkwoondoryu is a branch of Shorin-ryu karate that derives it's core from two different branches of Shorin-Ryu Karate. But most of the Shorin-Ryu arts formed from similar beginnings. The fact is that Master Tosh's art is based on a long running traditional Shorin-Ryu. Don't think that you might have found an authentic Okinawen Shorin-Ryu. Know that you have. Don't let us convince you. Just come by the School a few times and check it out for yourself. Remember you may go into a school one day and see everyone standing on one leg humming. So as a result you will leave thinking it is phony. But on the other day that you fail to go you might miss something truly special. Also some say that a certain renshi
llowe received his black belt in 18 months.Is that so hard to beleive? Especially after having trained in a similar style? How many great masters of the past and present have received their black belt in fast amounts of time??? How many hold other rankings in more then one system? How many hold 2nd, 3rd, 4th degree blk belts in more then 1 or 2 styles without having trained that long in them. How can this Be?? I personally know Renshi Lowe and consider him a very knowlegdable person and teacher when it comes to the martial arts. Like I said Master Tosh has been training in the arts for a very long time. Just ask Master Sid Campbell, or Master Eric Lee or other Great Masters. So JohnL come by the Dojo on Wednesday nights at 6pm for kumite(sparring) and then stay from 7pm-8pm to watch a little of the black belt class. We all tend to forget that at black belt level we are not masters yet. Only beginning students in the Martial Arts.

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#243415 - 05/03/06 10:15 AM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Renshig]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
oh, you mean THIS Soke Sid?


touring on the "Gathering_of_Warriors" weekend seminar?
http://www.ryuzado.com/Gathering_of_Warriors_2006.htm

coooooool. who knows...maybe he really is a Japanese samurai who learned Okinawan Karate. - I certainly can't say one way or another.

appreciate you sharing your damage control campaign with us, Renshig. but, we're all adults here and can think for ourselves thanks.

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#243416 - 05/03/06 12:06 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Sensei Paul Hart Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Lehigh Acres, Florida
It looks like Sid Cambell has went the way of Dillman, Hunnicut, and a few other "Masters" in the arts. Maybe to many kicks to the head?

Renshig, how old are these people claiming Master status? To be honest, the fact that you call them Master, and they allow it seems to point to BS for me. I have known a few Judans in my life and none of them were ever called anything but Sensei, save for one, who used the term Taika.
While I may agree with you that after training in another art it would be easier to get rank in a new one. I do not agree with the rest. Some ranks are honorable anyway, meaning they are given as a sign of respect. Like to President Reagan by Joon Rhee (spelling?)and thats fine in the political state of martial arts today.

Bottom line, as my father always said, if it looks like poop, if it smells like poop, well, it must be POOP.
_________________________
Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#243417 - 05/03/06 01:47 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Renshig Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 3
Damage control? Not at all. Just simply pointing somethings out to those who assume. Also I never said some of you could not think for yourselves. But when it seems that one bases their opinion on in accurate facts , then I must chime in.

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#243418 - 05/03/06 02:07 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Sensei Paul Hart]
Renshig Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 3
Wow what a great thing for you to do. Insult a fellow practinional of Shorin-Ryu karate. There was no need to say the comment about to many kicks to the head. You may call things BS or say they smell like it so they must be. But on the same side I can say your full of it too and don't practise the integrity/respect parts of the art. Your system that was created may not care to call anyone master, but that does not mean they are not. Just give me a few names of Masters in the arts or what you consider would qualify for Master. I have been a member of these forum for not even a day yet. And already I really don't care for some of the memeber that are on here. Opinions are like A-holes , everyone has them. Even though I don't agree with your comments your more then welcome to have them. All I say is do not assume things should be the way they are because you have trained in one system for 32 year or whatever. Until you have experience with the teacher/system then you can base some comments off of that. There are many reasons to have ranks and not to have ranks. Many reason to have title of master or not title of master. Utimately that is the decison of your dojo/style. But we can go back and forth about who is right or wrong and it probably will never stop. Come over to California and train with Master Tosh or Master Sid Campbell til then negative comments should be saved for where they belong...the school yard.

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#243419 - 05/03/06 03:18 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Renshig]
Sensei Paul Hart Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Lehigh Acres, Florida
I didn't say Cambell's Karate wasn't good. He trained with Nakazato, which means his Karate should be pretty good, however, I have the opinion when someone starts calling themselves Soke, Grand Master, Supreme Grand Master or even just Master, that way to much of Karate has gone to thier heads. I don't care what they want to be called, makes no difference to me, just seems to be an ego boost, IMHO. I have met Sid Cambell, and a few others. Been to California more than a few times. I probably wouldn't train with him, not because of his Karate but I have no use for commercialism. Know this, George Dillman use to do passable Karate, just went a little crazy there as of late. May happen to me, but if so, I hope some of my collegues will knock me back to reality. Please Ed, if I ever dress as an armored samurai, knock some sense into me. My opinion shouldn't matter, I am just a nobody, as is everyone else. I guess when you desire to be a big fish, your pond is all that matters to you. Have Sid Cambell give me a call, and we will talk. I see no reason to not get on the floor with him. Just I am not going to go across the United States to do it. What would it prove.....either way?

I do have experiance with Miyahira's Kobayashi Shorin Ryu, BTW. So yes, I believe that I can base my opinion on knowledge.
_________________________
Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#243420 - 05/03/06 03:20 PM Re: Anyone practice Shorin ryu? [Re: Renshig]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
{yawn} new user, same crap.

Fine. You win, Soke spokesperson. here are the 'new' proclamations for this forum.... ready people:

* All 10th dans legitimately promoted themselves, so never question them or their background or you will be considered 'missing the point' of true martial arts.
(10 budo demerits.)

* Westerners depicted in tourist-quality samurai full battle dress, yet advertising teaching Okinawan Shorin Ryu derivitives is nothing strange since it fits into most people's stereotype view of things 'Asian', and should not be questioned or else it's 'disrespectful'.
(20 budo demerits.)

* All members of associations which hand out dan rank certificates for cash are legitimatly doing so and again, should not be questioned since questioning in general is not in line with the true spirit of budo.
(50 budo demerits.)

* Whenever ANY 10th dan Soke is mentioned by name, all posts thereafter must change tone to reverence, humbleness and unworthyness to even be present in the same thread as posts containing Soke jimbob's name. If not, you will be deducted 100 budo merits, not smiled upon, not allowed into the clubhouse or shown the new secret bow....also we'll misuse Japanese terms to each other so it will appear like we have esoteric knowledge of the Arts we profess to have invented -and we won't tell you what the words mean.

* The psychology of supreme great grandmaster soke senators (but just call me grandmaster) is basically all about control and power. The power is illusionary and constrained to within the social class structure of their org ...step outside that circle, and they have just a hard a time hailing a cab as anyone. This frustration of wishing their perceived power within the org transferred to the upper class structure of society is what leads them to asking their students to go on forums and change the perception to widen their influence and reality.

but if you call that fact out...you'll get slapped with 200 forum budo demerits....so I recommend ALL of us just PLAY BALL and let the student of Soke, 'tell us like it is'.

{bows} the floor is yours....

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