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#242330 - 04/01/06 10:24 AM Alternative targets for elbows
Drag'n Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I sometimes compete in Kudo, a mma, where we wear plastic faced headgear and fight without gloves.
When my opponent gets in close I love to use my elbows. Problem is, the headgear takes alot of the effectiveness out of elbows to the face. I was considering the option of going for the collar bone, as its easy to break, painfull, and demobilises the arm. Traditional karate uses chopping strikes to the collar bone, So I figure it could be a good alternative target.
I caught my teacher with one the other night by accident. He pulled back and my elbow came down on the bone. He was in pain for most of the night. But It wasnt enough to stop him from beating the daylights out of me though. lol!
So I was wondering if any of you use this target, or if anybody has had their collar bone broken and how did it effect your movement?
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#242331 - 04/01/06 10:37 PM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I've heard of Kudo, it's like karate and judo put into a blending machine, right?

Anyway, the elbow? I'd suggest the abdomen or the area on the side of the body, near the armpit.

I don't suggest collarbone. You are competing not trying to incapacitate your opponents.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#242332 - 04/02/06 09:22 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Drag'n Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I know it sounds pretty vicious. And I dont know if I would purposely go for it in a comp or not. But when you think about it, is it any worse then breaking a rib or KOing your opponent? Lets face it, full contact competition is a brutal sport.
It could be a viable SD technique too.
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#242333 - 04/02/06 03:25 PM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Lets face it, full contact competition is a brutal sport.




No its not. That is why there are rules- to ensure that people who choose to take part stand a reasonable chance of avoiding hospital. Breaking a collar bone will leave your oponent in extreme pain and without the use of their arm for around 6 weeks. They will then have to rehab, and be left with an unsightly lump where the bone has re-fused (it never sets back to its original place).

To have a bone break by accident as part of a a rough sport is an unfortunate but acceptable risk. To have someone go out of their way to break your bones on purpose is unforgiveable. That is why mma joint submissions are applied with gradual resistence, to allow the victim to tap. What you are suggesting is the equivalent of someone yanking in an armbar to ruin the arm on purpose.

There are many things you can do in self defence- any bone can be broken- including your spine. Do you suggest neck braking should be allowed in the octagon?

Would you like someone to break your bones on purpose, leaving you permanently damaged in the name of an evenings training?

Get a sense of perspective and stop the macho nonsense.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#242334 - 04/02/06 07:04 PM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Quote:

But when you think about it, is it any worse then breaking a rib or KOing your opponent? Lets face it, full contact competition is a brutal sport.




Don't mean to sound too biblical, but do on to others as you would like them to do on to you.

Also, if you get a reputation as a dirty fighter you will become a pariah within you MA. People will want you to get hurt, you could be barred from future competitions etc.

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#242335 - 04/03/06 06:31 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Kid, I don't like the macho attitude you are displaying right now.

First of all, it's called full contact SPORT. A sport is a SAFE event. Now, no sport can come close to combat in sense of SD application. I come from MT. We can say we are the one of the most brutal sport there is, especially when we use the Lumpini rules, which is regarded close to having no rules. I can tell you one thing, we don't strive to permanently hurt each other, ok, accidents occur, but rarely do we break any of our opponent's bone with intention.

Quote:

is it any worse then breaking a rib or KOing your opponent?


A KO will result in your opponent getting knocked out, and will after a while wake up with damages that will heal. Breaking a bone, is a permanent thing, and takes time to heal to near 90% of the original status, hence, bones don't really grow back to their original shape after its been broken.

Breaking your own bones is one thing, breaking another being's bone is not something to be taken lightly. What if I broke your bones? Wouldn't you be a little angry for my actions? Now, do to others, what you would do to yourself.

Quote:

Lets face it, full contact competition is a brutal sport.


No, full contact competition is a sport with rules. It can never get close to life and death battles which is only seen in battlefields or street defense against criminals with little to no heed towards your life. You break another individual's bone, you will pay the price. Not only that, if you are found guilty for intentionally breaking your opponent's bone you will face two consequences; a) paying the bills and b) debarred from future competition for a time. I don't know about Japan, but if it's in Thailand and you are found guilty, you may be sued unless the rules said that if accidents occur, the promoters will take responsibility.

I would suggest that you think before you say something like hurting another individual, because, it is just a sport, and be it MMA or Point-sparring, it is just a game, and shouldn't be taken serious.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#242336 - 04/03/06 07:31 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Taison]
Drag'n Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Wow I really got a reaction to this one didn't I. Actually I'm glad that none of you are keen on the idea of purposely trying to break bones. So you MMA and MT guys do have scruples after all!
Like I said, I probably wouldnt do it. And I didnt really know what other full contact fighters would think of something like this, so I'm glad the idea got a negative response. I was under the impression that MT had a fair amount of dirty fighting techs.
Still, when I throw a round kick, I'm doing it with every intention of breaking my oponents ribs. And I know that when I fight theres a good chance that I'm going to get seriously hurt. Lets not fool ourselves here. MT and MMA ARE brutal sports. Getting KOd IS going to cause permanent damage .Every one of us gets in the ring with the intention of smashing our opponent into unconsiousness. Its not a game to be taken lightly.
I actually worry that I'm just not aggressive enough to compete in this kind of sport sometimes. Aggressive violence dosent come naturally to me. I have to really get myself amped up before I get in the ring.
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#242337 - 04/03/06 10:26 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbows [Re: Drag'n]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

MT and MMA ARE brutal sports. Getting KOd IS going to cause permanent damage .Every one of us gets in the ring with the intention of smashing our opponent into unconsiousness. Its not a game to be taken lightly.




oh boy have you got things out of perspective

KO's rarely cause damage. You tend to find brain damage in fighting sports comes from repetetive strikes to the head (we are talking thousands of 'em), flash ko's are a disruption of the electrical impulses to the brain- a shot on the nerves in the jaw can 'spark you out' and leave no lasting damage.
Every fighter who gets in any ring/octagon does so with the intention of winning the fight with good tactics and the ability to read and counter the skills of their oponent. Ask Chris Eubank if he thinks putting Michael Watson in a coma was the greatest moment in his career? Of course it wasnt, it nearly destroyed him, and he never fought the same afterwards.

If you fight full contact, then you will come to realise very quickly that if you try and 'break ribs with every kick' you will become a one dimensional fighter, who's reliance on power will lead to an open guard and poor balance.
Controlled aggression is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to fighting, you will either learn this in training, or when you come to step in the ring against an experienced oponent for the first time and get your a$$ kicked after being twigged as a haymaking dunce.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#242338 - 04/04/06 05:17 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbow [Re: Cord]
Drag'n Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Haha good reply. You're right too! I do have a tendency to go for the KO too much, and get off balanced because of it.
Dont get me wrong though. I sure wouldnt want to put anyone in a coma. And the part of the reason why I posted this idea was because I didnt feel right about going for such a vicious technique in a comp. ( the collar bone)
So I wanted to see what other peoples reactions would be.
In some ways It may be considered somewhat odd though, that the concept of purposely breaking a guys finger (for example) is considered shamefull, whereas pummelling his head into unconciousness is great.
I know that I wouldnt want to do it, because I dont compete to purposely inflict injuries, or even just to win. I do it to test my skills , face my fears, and overcome my weaknesses. To go for dirty shots is to take the easy way out. There would be no honor in winning like that. I was interested in what other fighters views would be. Sorry if I went about it in a rather round about way.
But considering the fact that we are fighting full contact, inflicting injuries is inevitable. We aint passing a ball around. We're throwing our fists at each other with intent to do damage. Its skillful, its tactical, it can even be honorable, but its still brutal.
I'd like to beleive that KOs dont cause permanent brain damage, but to be honest I think thats something fighters just say to feel OK about it. I wonder how many doctors would agree. Yes I know there are some that would, but not all.



_________________________
You fight like you train

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#242339 - 04/04/06 06:06 AM Re: Alternative targets for elbow [Re: Drag'n]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
You got something wrong in your head. Firstly, the goal may be to hit your opponent, but you don't try to injure him as in breaking any bones or ribs.

From your words, I find that you are quite. . immature for a grown up. No, really, read your own posts. MA train to get better at their sport, not injuring other MA.

Quote:

dont compete to purposely inflict injuries, or even just to win. I do it to test my skills , face my fears, and overcome my weaknesses. To go for dirty shots is to take the easy way out. There would be no honor in winning like that. I was interested in what other fighters views would be. Sorry if I went about it in a rather round about way.
But considering the fact that we are fighting full contact, inflicting injuries is inevitable. We aint passing a ball around. We're throwing our fists at each other with intent to do damage. Its skillful, its tactical, it can even be honorable, but its still brutal.



Oh, ok. Now I understand you a little bit more.

I have a question. What do you consider "BRUTAL"? I've seen TKD artists kick each other on the head. I've seen CMA's throwing lighting speed punches on each other, I've seen judo-ka breaking limbs by accident. If you enter the world of MA, everything is supposed to be. . brutal. It doesn't necessarily have to be MT or MMA.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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