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#242017 - 03/30/06 03:14 PM Little kids with black belts? Absurd!
PSYOPS Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25
Recently my neighbor asked me to take a look at a local "Karate" school. He was considering placing his son in this school. He knows that I am a Krav Maga instructor so he wanted my opinion. I agreed and we both went to the "Karate" school.

The first thing I noticed was the "Karate" school was actually a Tae Kwon Do school. I find that many TKD schools market themselves as Karate schools because Karate has a generic association with MA. But I digress.

I walk into this school and to my horror I noticed that there were at least 3 "black belts" in this school who were no older than 13! WTF? A thirteen year old Black belt? Are you kidding me?

As an instructor I was embarrased! I don't care how long your kid has been practicing no 13 year old should be a black belt. Black belt means that you are a "expert". Would any of you enroll in a school that had children ranked as "experts"?


This is one of things that just gets on my nerves. If a kid knows Katas, forms, breaks boards and can execute kicks does this make him/her a black belt? Come on! Awarding a child a black belt completely removes any integrity from the system in which the kid studies!

To me this is nothing other than a calculated marketing ploy and parents fall for it. More importantly the student takes with him a false sense of security and that could get the child hurt. What are your thoughts?

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#242018 - 03/30/06 04:13 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: PSYOPS]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Psyops,

You're a little late observing this. I've seen this being done for more than 25 years. And in that time the sky hasn't fallen or much else except society has gone to blazes in general (just a gentle jest).

Training groups are what they are, they're not all equal.

Rank is what it is, and it's not all equal.

I've been training young people for over 25 years now, and on the average it takes them 7 to 9 years to become a black belt, and by then they're no longer young.

Is it controversial, not really. I disagree with your definition that black belt means expert. I hardly consider new black belts experts in any system I've seen. I think a better definition is they're no longer beginners and are now students.

But the issue behind young people that I have isn't age (actually I've seen some incredible 12 and 13 year olds, including one 13 year old young woman to took first place in National Isshinryu competition in weapons, against all adult men in the division).

The main issue I see is they really can't choose to be a student. They're under their parents guidance. Their parents make them get to class (and drive them) and support them. They haven't made their own choices to be a student and enter deeper training, and at 13 very few can do that.

But it's relative. If we are in dislike of the pactice, it's so universal in some groups at this point, nobody anywhere is really going to take notice.

Big world isn't it.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#242019 - 03/30/06 04:21 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: PSYOPS]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
The first MA school I joined had BB's for kids.

One of the most vivid impressions I retain from that school was when we went as a huge group to participate in a tournament in another town. It was held in a local gym.

Late that afternoon, one of our child BB's let his Mickey Mouse stuffed doll walk off. So he stood in the middle of the bleachers, in the middle of the tournament, in full uniform and belt, and threw screaming temper tantrum. He was about 8.

I lasted three more months.

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#242020 - 03/30/06 04:30 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Joss]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
lol...nice.

here's a simple tip: you walk into a place and notice BB's less than 16 years old....you walk out.

simple.

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#242021 - 03/30/06 05:25 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Ed_Morris]
PSYOPS Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25
I agree.

Look I know that there are some very talented young folks out there but come on. This is a phenomenon that must be eradicated! It is ridiculous and personally I can't take any school seriously that promotes this type of nonsense!

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#242022 - 03/30/06 05:29 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: PSYOPS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
LOL. Why does it bother you so much? Just don't train there. Does the cloth around their waist devalue the cloth around yours?

It just doesn't matter to me anymore.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#242023 - 03/30/06 05:38 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: BrianS]
PSYOPS Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 25
Oh no,

I don't even wear a belt. Ever! In fact I don't own one. This is just one of those things that iritates me. Just a vent that's all.

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#242024 - 03/30/06 06:38 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Victor Smith]
mukashimantis Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 36
Loc: new york
i don't know about your school, but my students are expert by blackbelt.it takes 12-14 years to get there.if your income comes from teaching(mine does not) and you must teach children,I feel that a distinction should be made between ranks.perhaps Jr. black belts or staying at a blue belt until 16 yrs old. there are age distinctions and classes at competitions for good reason.would you set your 12 year old black belt against my 30 year old?think about it.mantis

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#242025 - 03/30/06 09:12 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: mukashimantis]
Derik Offline
Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 161
"karate for kids"

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#242026 - 03/30/06 09:45 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Derik]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
We should tremble at the sight of a six year old "master"...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#242027 - 03/30/06 10:36 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: PSYOPS]
Ukraine Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I totally agree with you. I mean they can at least wait until their 16 or 15.

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#242028 - 03/30/06 11:08 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Ukraine]
mean_fighter Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 160
This topic is LOL but its ok! yeah a instructore or school should atleast wait till there 16 ir higher!

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#242029 - 03/31/06 01:23 AM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: mean_fighter]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
This may be a bit extreme, but I think it's worth noting. To me, a black belt student is someone who has graduated to a level of moderately high maturity and a deep, psychological understanding of what he or she has been taught up until that time. Most children are not ready to bare this responsibility. And there's the matter of how well they apply the self-defense of the art, assuming the art has a capable or at least adequate self-defense component.

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#242030 - 03/31/06 11:24 AM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Ed_Morris]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"Here's a simple tip: you walk into a place and notice BB's less than 16 years old....you walk out. Simple."

Yeah, but that's what I know now - compared to what I knew then.

Truth is, if I walk into a dojo NOW and see children at all, I walk out.

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#242031 - 03/31/06 11:39 AM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: Joss]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sorry. I disagree. Sure...awarding BB's to kids is abused...but everyone says that getting a BB is just the BEGINNING of learning. My son spent 6 years, 5 days a week, in TKD and I feel he really earned his BB by the time he was 15. He knew all the forms, could spar, assisted in teaching lower belts, could break those stupid boards.

He passed the requirements for an adult...so why not? As an analogy: a child is brighter than the average kid in Middle School. So smart that this kid has the ability to take more complex academic courses. Perhaps, even college level. Would you deny the child the opportunity to attend these courses, even though they are not emotionally/socially capable of participating in adult activities?

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#242032 - 03/31/06 12:34 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: harlan]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Harlan, congratulations to your son. That is a fine accomplishment.

I'm not saying children in MA is bad. I'm saying it is not to my taste to train with them or to attend a school that has a heavy focus in kids MA. I'm further saying that 8 year old BB's are ridiculous.

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#242033 - 03/31/06 07:40 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: PSYOPS]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
This subject has been flogged in the general MA talk forum. Is there any reason it should be discussed any further in this forum?
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#242034 - 03/31/06 08:01 PM Re: Little kids with black belts? Absurd! [Re: RangerG]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
nope........
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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