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#241599 - 03/29/06 03:04 PM No sorries?
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
My old instructor had a saying,"there are no sorries here'. If we said we were sorry we would be doing pushups. I think it may have been a bit extreme,but maybe not? He hasn't been teaching for a few years and my current instructor who was also under him still says 'no sorries',but he has the 'ju'(soft) quality,sometimes a little too 'ju'.
Accidents do happen in class,but we all know why we are there and the risks involved. We are there to learn and to take care of eachother at the same time. So should we be sorry? If I'm sparing and I throw a jab that catchs someone as they are charging in should I say sorry?
I think there's a happy medium somewhere?
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#241600 - 03/29/06 03:10 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
Joss Offline

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
If my screw up gets me hurt... that's my bad.

But if I make a mistake and hurt a training partner - why should I not be sorry? Am I not supposed to feel it... or just not supposed to say it?

Sorry... I do both.

#241601 - 03/29/06 04:07 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Joss]
traq Offline

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 131
Loc: SoCal
if it was honestly a mistake, then just consider it a side-effect of training. I don't think you need to feel (or say) sorry about it.

Not that you need to be callous, either. "Oh, whiney baby, just get up and keep sparring!!!" isn't the proper response. If someone working with me gets hurt, the first thing I do is make sure they're not seriously injured. then, help them with whatever they need, like a bandage if its bleeding everywhere or ice if it's a sprain or something. usually we can just keep working without too much interruption.

"no sorries" is a fine policy, I guess, as long as it's not used as an excuse to be an @$$hole.

If something worse than a minor injury was caused by someone's carelessness, I would ask that person to turn away (giving privacy/ a show of consideration & respect) while I helped the other student. in that case, I would think it appropriate for the guy to apoligize (assuming they meant it) after the injury is taken care of. but that doesn't happen often.
Adrian USKO Riverside dojo/ Madison Elem. after-school

#241602 - 03/29/06 04:16 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
If I feel sorry, I say it regardless of the situation to get it off of my chest. I don't need apologies...but it is nice to be asked 'Are you okay?'

#241603 - 03/29/06 04:22 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Last year while doing groundwork my instructors neck was injured ,kinda bad. I apologized,said sorry,etc....He was in alot of pain,but it was an accident. I didn't feel responsible and I wasn't apologizing for doing it. I was just sorry that it happened.
He's much better now though.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#241604 - 03/29/06 05:42 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Some of the most "missing" training today is in control. It's not an instruction, but a learned skill, and you have to pay attention when you're training with someone. Anyone can have an accident, but the majority of the time, injuries are due to someone wanting to win so badly that they lose the "control" factor.

In karate and jujitsu, the more advanced the level of technique, the more damage can be done by losing control, and it is a primary part of the technique. I teach that you should have control throughout the technique, and that you should be able to stop or release at any point during the technique. In karate, it's done through proper distancing (maai) and lots of practice. In jujitsu, it's learned from doing the techniques and keeping control of the opponent from the outset.

"Sorries" are usually coverups for losing control, but again, as I said, anyone can have an accident. When that happens, you have an obligation to tell the other party that you apologize for hurting them. It's also a good thing to remember that you might be in that same situation sometime soon, and "paybacks" can be really painful.

"We do not train to win or lose, but to remain undefeated".

What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

#241605 - 03/29/06 06:11 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
McSensei Offline

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1069
Loc: Kent, England
A funny one this. Funny weird, not funny haha.
I seem to have an in-built reaction switch that ejaculates (stop laughing ) the word sorry at the first sign of contact. (oh God, what am I saying here )

Let's try and re-word that.
I'm always saying sorry to people when I hit them. The weird thing is I don't like people to stop and say sorry to me when they catch me a bit too hard.(????What is it with me tonight )

This post started badly and went downhill from there. I think I'll quit while I'm....

..not banned.

#241606 - 03/29/06 06:20 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1069
Loc: Kent, England
Just remembered something else I was going to say.

I once went to kick my instructor with a round kick, about chest height, when he pulled his hand across his chest as a kind of flimsy guard. My foot connected cleanly with his finger which dislocated 90degrees sideways. He let out a big yell and I was instantly apologetic.

Here's the thing. On reflection, the way he has acted toward me since I stopped teaching for his club, I should have stamped on his foot and kneed him in the face.

Edited to remove unnecessary insults-my bad

Edited by McSensei (04/20/06 03:38 PM)

#241607 - 03/29/06 07:52 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: McSensei]
Derik Offline
Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 161

I seem to have an reaction that ejaculates at the first sign of contact.`:(`


#241608 - 03/29/06 08:41 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Brian -

While I consider the phrase "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" to be somewhat condescending, I don't think that punishment is really necessary for students that use it.

When accidents happen, I simply ask "Are you OK?" If they say yes, we continue as before with no further comment. I mean, you ARE training to hit each other, right? Why would you be sorry if you do? Only the degree makes it inappropriate, IMHO.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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