FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 24 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
AndyLA 5
Dobbersky 5
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
ergees 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#241599 - 03/29/06 03:04 PM No sorries?
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
My old instructor had a saying,"there are no sorries here'. If we said we were sorry we would be doing pushups. I think it may have been a bit extreme,but maybe not? He hasn't been teaching for a few years and my current instructor who was also under him still says 'no sorries',but he has the 'ju'(soft) quality,sometimes a little too 'ju'.
Accidents do happen in class,but we all know why we are there and the risks involved. We are there to learn and to take care of eachother at the same time. So should we be sorry? If I'm sparing and I throw a jab that catchs someone as they are charging in should I say sorry?
I think there's a happy medium somewhere?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#241600 - 03/29/06 03:10 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
If my screw up gets me hurt... that's my bad.

But if I make a mistake and hurt a training partner - why should I not be sorry? Am I not supposed to feel it... or just not supposed to say it?

Sorry... I do both.

Top
#241601 - 03/29/06 04:07 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Joss]
traq Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 131
Loc: SoCal
if it was honestly a mistake, then just consider it a side-effect of training. I don't think you need to feel (or say) sorry about it.

Not that you need to be callous, either. "Oh, whiney baby, just get up and keep sparring!!!" isn't the proper response. If someone working with me gets hurt, the first thing I do is make sure they're not seriously injured. then, help them with whatever they need, like a bandage if its bleeding everywhere or ice if it's a sprain or something. usually we can just keep working without too much interruption.

"no sorries" is a fine policy, I guess, as long as it's not used as an excuse to be an @$$hole.

If something worse than a minor injury was caused by someone's carelessness, I would ask that person to turn away (giving privacy/ a show of consideration & respect) while I helped the other student. in that case, I would think it appropriate for the guy to apoligize (assuming they meant it) after the injury is taken care of. but that doesn't happen often.
_________________________
Adrian USKO Riverside dojo/ Madison Elem. after-school

Top
#241602 - 03/29/06 04:16 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
If I feel sorry, I say it regardless of the situation to get it off of my chest. I don't need apologies...but it is nice to be asked 'Are you okay?'

Top
#241603 - 03/29/06 04:22 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Last year while doing groundwork my instructors neck was injured ,kinda bad. I apologized,said sorry,etc....He was in alot of pain,but it was an accident. I didn't feel responsible and I wasn't apologizing for doing it. I was just sorry that it happened.
He's much better now though.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#241604 - 03/29/06 05:42 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Some of the most "missing" training today is in control. It's not an instruction, but a learned skill, and you have to pay attention when you're training with someone. Anyone can have an accident, but the majority of the time, injuries are due to someone wanting to win so badly that they lose the "control" factor.

In karate and jujitsu, the more advanced the level of technique, the more damage can be done by losing control, and it is a primary part of the technique. I teach that you should have control throughout the technique, and that you should be able to stop or release at any point during the technique. In karate, it's done through proper distancing (maai) and lots of practice. In jujitsu, it's learned from doing the techniques and keeping control of the opponent from the outset.

"Sorries" are usually coverups for losing control, but again, as I said, anyone can have an accident. When that happens, you have an obligation to tell the other party that you apologize for hurting them. It's also a good thing to remember that you might be in that same situation sometime soon, and "paybacks" can be really painful.

"We do not train to win or lose, but to remain undefeated".

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#241605 - 03/29/06 06:11 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
A funny one this. Funny weird, not funny haha.
I seem to have an in-built reaction switch that ejaculates (stop laughing ) the word sorry at the first sign of contact. (oh God, what am I saying here )

Let's try and re-word that.
I'm always saying sorry to people when I hit them. The weird thing is I don't like people to stop and say sorry to me when they catch me a bit too hard.(????What is it with me tonight )

This post started badly and went downhill from there. I think I'll quit while I'm....

..not banned.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

Top
#241606 - 03/29/06 06:20 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Just remembered something else I was going to say.

I once went to kick my instructor with a round kick, about chest height, when he pulled his hand across his chest as a kind of flimsy guard. My foot connected cleanly with his finger which dislocated 90degrees sideways. He let out a big yell and I was instantly apologetic.

Here's the thing. On reflection, the way he has acted toward me since I stopped teaching for his club, I should have stamped on his foot and kneed him in the face.


Edited to remove unnecessary insults-my bad


Edited by McSensei (04/20/06 03:38 PM)
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

Top
#241607 - 03/29/06 07:52 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: McSensei]
Derik Offline
Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 161
Quote:


I seem to have an reaction that ejaculates at the first sign of contact.`:(`




gross..

Top
#241608 - 03/29/06 08:41 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Brian -

While I consider the phrase "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" to be somewhat condescending, I don't think that punishment is really necessary for students that use it.

When accidents happen, I simply ask "Are you OK?" If they say yes, we continue as before with no further comment. I mean, you ARE training to hit each other, right? Why would you be sorry if you do? Only the degree makes it inappropriate, IMHO.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#241609 - 03/29/06 09:22 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Brian:

Absolutely we must definately should be sorry! The first question however should be are you hurt...? If so, then we apologize... both politeness & concern should absolutely be expressed.

Jeff

Top
#241610 - 03/29/06 10:54 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Ronin1966]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I don't remember saying "I'm sorry" all that much. I remember saying/hearing "Are you OK?" A nod of the head and a tap of the gloves and we're back at it.

We all know nobody is there to hurt another, so "I'm sorry" or "I didn't mean to" is not necessary, it is implied in the act of training together.

In other words, shut up and train.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#241611 - 03/30/06 01:06 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: JoelM]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

I don't remember saying "I'm sorry" all that much. I remember saying/hearing "Are you OK?" A nod of the head and a tap of the gloves and we're back at it.

We all know nobody is there to hurt another, so "I'm sorry" or "I didn't mean to" is not necessary, it is implied in the act of training together.

In other words, shut up and train.





Well said.
_________________________
Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts. Note: The Signature feature is currently not enabled by this bulletin board's administrator. You may use UBB Code in this field, but not HTML. The UBB Code Image tag is not permitted, however.

Top
#241612 - 03/30/06 02:29 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: kusojiji]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

I don't remember saying "I'm sorry" all that much. I remember saying/hearing "Are you OK?" A nod of the head and a tap of the gloves and we're back at it.

We all know nobody is there to hurt another, so "I'm sorry" or "I didn't mean to" is not necessary, it is implied in the act of training together.

In other words, shut up and train.





Well said.




I agree,I think that was my instructors point.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#241613 - 03/30/06 04:36 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
I don't usually say anything unless their reaction tells me it hurt. If that's the case I ask if they're OK and continue if they reply that they are.
Sharon
_________________________
Anyone mind if I sit down?

Top
#241614 - 03/30/06 05:08 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: still wadowoman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Agreed. If you're sparring with someone and you make contact saying sorry would imply that you didn't mean to land the shot, and in which case you shouldn't have thrown it in the first place. If anything, rather than saying sorry, the person you caught should be saying "Thank you!" as you've just given them a gift showing a weakness in their defence. The whole "Sorry" for landing a shot thing breeds a mindset that doesn't actually want to hit someone else, in which case, don't throw any techniques. So IMHO there should be no sorries, only thank yous!

Gav

PS. Obviously if you go outside of the agreed terms of sparring then obviously apologies are needed, I'm talking here about sensiable conscience training.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#241615 - 03/30/06 08:02 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: JoelM]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This is one of those situations people call me "cold-blooded".

Thai people are a very. . . Forgiving and compassionate people. If they hit you and you get hurt, they will say sorry until you accept it.

When I was sparring I got kicked in the face. He said sorry and I told him "Don't be, you're trained to do that". After 30 minutes I spar another person and I hit him in the face with my left cross. He goes down to the floor with tears and say "WTF! You hit me in the face". I told him "That's the point of sparring, if I hold back, well, wouldn't I be better off learning Tai Chi or something?"

Sorry isn't a very appropriate of the nature of the arts we train. If an accident occur, and you didn't mean it, it's ok to apologize as long as you know that someday, it would have happened. If you're apologizing just because you hit someone, well, what's the point? You are learning to "injure" another person right? They are entitled to do the same.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#241616 - 03/30/06 12:16 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Taison]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
i hate being offered a hand when getting up, if i can't get up myself then call me an ambulance!
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

Top
#241617 - 03/30/06 12:22 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: funstick5000]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
OK... you're an ambulance.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#241618 - 03/30/06 01:01 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
If I hurt my oponent with an unintentional foul or illegal shot, then I say sorry and tap gloves.
If i hurt them with a legal and intentional shot, I am far more likely to shout 'NOW SON OF JORRELL, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!' and wade in. I wouldnt expect anything less in return
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#241619 - 03/30/06 01:14 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
sorry...what was your question again? j/k

In person, I'm somewhat different than on here in the sense of when meeting people in person, I tend to be more polite than when I first meet people here. why is that? I don't know.

saying sorry and politeness when training is the same...if it's someone I don't know very well, I say sorry and kindof expect them to do the same.
After you get to know someone better, you know that the sorry is implied and no longer need to verbalize it.

Top
#241620 - 03/30/06 09:42 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Ed,
once when I first started training in karate, we went to Charlotte,NC to train with a school who "punched past" their partner's heads (up to the elbow) when training. After about three classes with them, we went back to our school and the first technique I tried, I punched my instructor right dead between the eyes, because we punched "to the target", not beside it. "Sorry" never entered my mind... but I sure could have used an extra door to the place... I think it was more "OS"...


_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#241621 - 03/30/06 10:49 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: Ed_Morris]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

saying sorry and politeness when training is the same...if it's someone I don't know very well, I say sorry and kindof expect them to do the same.
After you get to know someone better, you know that the sorry is implied and no longer need to verbalize it.




That is true, Ed. My comments were in regards to people with whom I had been training with for a while. I would probably say sorry if it were a relatively new training partner.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#241622 - 03/30/06 11:32 PM Re: No sorries? [Re: JoelM]
srv Offline
The OTHER forum Doctor

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 139
Loc: SA, Australia
I think that saying sorry depends on the type of sparring you're doing, the level of the person you're training with and how well you know the person. If you're meant to be doing non contact sparring and you whack someone then checking if they're ok is fine. I will sometimes say sorry out of habit from the "real world" ie hurt someone, say sorry, although we've been trying to get out of that habit at training for all the reasons that have already been posted.

If it's contact sparring then a quick are you ok? is fine and then get on with it. If I'm sparring with someone I know well and of a similar rank to me then we tend to go pretty hard and if you land a good technique generally the person who gets hit usually says "nice shot" and keeps going. If i cop a punch to the face I'm usually more p..sed with myself for dropping my hands rather than worrying about someone saying sorry.
Also as someone else mentioned, if it's someone you know well and train with a lot then sorries are usually unneccesary but if it's someone new, I kind of feel it's polite to say sorry in that situation.

Top
#241623 - 03/31/06 10:29 AM Re: No sorries? [Re: srv]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
"I never apologize. I'm sorry, thats just the way I am"

Homer Simpson.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, McSensei, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga