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#240613 - 03/22/06 05:41 PM Eagle Claw
skeeve Offline

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 7
Can anyone recomend a good place to learn Eagle Claw style? preferably in the Boston area. Also, any good books or articles on this style would be appreciated. Preferably focusing on technique rather than history.

#240614 - 03/22/06 05:48 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: skeeve]
Fisherman Offline

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Chris Haynes

#240615 - 03/22/06 05:58 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: Fisherman]
skeeve Offline

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 7
I asked for recomendations. Not just what there was. I was asking if anyone knew of a GOOD place to learn. Obviously I've googled and seen what there is.

#240616 - 03/22/06 06:38 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: skeeve]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
What is "good" for one may not be "good" for another. That is why we recommend you check out the schools yourself, and decide what YOU like.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#240617 - 03/22/06 08:48 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: MattJ]
Derik Offline
Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 161

#240618 - 03/22/06 08:50 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: Derik]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Are you lost?

#240619 - 03/22/06 11:41 PM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: skeeve]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

I have studied Eagle Claw a bit, with Ernest Rothrock in Pittsburgh PA, many years ago.

Eagle Claw (Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai) is only taught in a few locations. There is the Shum Leung lineage (from NYC) that has a few locations. Shum Sifu has retired. One of his students has opened a new school in the NYC area, and Mr. Rothrock is in Penna (several schools), and Benson Fong is in the San Francisco area, plus a few others.

Then there is the Lau sister lineage of Eagle Claw, mostly centerd on the West Coast.

To my best knowledge there is no one teaching Eagle Claw in New England.

The closest might be Dr. Yang Jwing Ming outside of Boston (Jamica Plain), who teaches White Crane. White Crane contains clawing techniques (as does Preying Mantis) the techniques are similar to Eagle Claw's just with somewhat different hand positions.

There is also some Preying Mantis in the Boston Area, which also includes clawing techniques.

While Shum Sifu has written a very good book on Eagle Claw, and numerous video tapes, you truthfully can only study it under a qualifide instructor. His book was published by Tuttle Publicaions in Boston, and is available through all the major book chains (they can order it if not on hand).

Master Shum's book is filled with direct applications, but if you don't spend several decades on the form work and correct claw power development (also from the forms work) you cannot do more than just grab. It's interesting that Eagle Claw forms and decades of intense training do create a physical response, an intensly painful grip, and the claws without those grips (which i've experienced are not the real technique. Alas there are no short cuts.

My own studies under Mr. Rothrock were just to understand how the Chiense systems work, not to become a specialist. On the other hand I've been working on my tai chi technique for 28 years with him.

Northern Eagle Claw is based on Northern Chinese technique, long range kicks, tam tui kicks, etc. It classically begins with the student studying the 10 forms of the Jwing Wu (spelling?) Association, before Eagle Claw studies begin.

It represents a very complex, very difficult and very long study to learn.

Edited by Victor Smith (03/22/06 11:46 PM)
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#240620 - 03/23/06 12:00 AM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: Victor Smith]
skeeve Offline

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 7
thank you for your information and I want to apologise if i've been a pest. that was not my intention. It seems I was misinformed about one or two things. thank you for setting me straight and also giving me hope to find what i am looking for. I have previously been counseled that there are very few "good" instructors of the less known styles in America.

#240621 - 03/23/06 09:35 AM Re: Eagle Claw [Re: skeeve]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Skeeve,

Trying to search out a specific system is often very difficult if the system is not large. Eagle Claw is compounds that because there are only two legitimate lineages, The Lau sisters father and Shum Sifu's teacher were training brothers, so they're both branches of the same line.

Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai is a system that moved to Hong Kong, and there are no apparent groups in China itself any more. There are Chinese systesm with Eagle Forms (including modern Wu Shu) but they don't do things the same as Ying Jow Pai. In Hong Kong it's almost dead too. People don't have the time to spend training, working more important. Mr. Rothrock's been over to Hong Kong a few times the past several years and visits his teachers teacher son, and essentially it's gone there.

A large part of the problem is Eagle Claw is a huge system, one that very systemtically develops every aspect of a student abiltites. Nothing is left for 'discover it yourself'. The forms and 2 person exercies are huge, and they all form a structured training. But to learn all the details of the system takes over 25 years because there is so much material to learn.

Consequently, the complete system may not last another generation or so. Very few are willing to spend the time, and there are absolutely no short cuts.

There are also other groups teaching Eagle Claw (either from other traditions, or from groups that borrowed forms from video's. The difference is simple, if they don't descend directly from the Lau's or Shum, they're likely not Ying Jow Pai, nameing not withstanding.

BTW, the clawing in Northern Eagle Claw is identical to the clawing in Northern Tai Mantis. Same clawing techniques, just different claw formations, and different training practices. Likewise they are the same grabs as in Chin Na or Aikido, just with different wrap around training.

Essentially Eagle Claw incorporates a very old grappling system with Northern Shaolin studies, including some of the same base forms. It incorporates almost the entire range of Chinese kicking (dynamic high and dynamic low) as well as extensive ground technique too.

But it is just a system, and indivudual performance of any system is always the key.

Eagle Claw is just one (of many) of the truly interesting ones.

And IMO the difference, when my friend locks his claws on my humble arm, it feels like hot needles pressing into the nerves. Different from just a grab, with very, very extensive claw development the difference (and the key to that is extensive form development over deacdes - especially for those who decry the use of forms).

Just what I've seen,
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years


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