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#239042 - 03/16/06 01:50 PM answers to questions: why so harsh?
littlemikey26 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 11
Loc: michigan
im new to the forums but not new to martial arts, but im not talking about me, what i want to talk about is how people are responding to various questions here on the forums, for instance, someone will post about whether or not a particular sword, like cold steels warrior series for instance is functional or not, and the person will simply be told no it isnt, then tell the querent that he/she should seek professional instruction, now i have no problem with seeking qualified instructors, but when you say a weapon is or isnt functional you should enumerate the reasons why it isnt functional, such as do the menuki break or come loose? is the steel inferior? or is the overall assembly loose or the tsuka materials cheap or have some characteristic flaw? these forums are meant to be informational, but i have a feeling that perhaps many here are biased in some way, and feel that certain questions are beneath them, there tends to be an air of belittlement when someone who obviously is ignorant of certain things asks a question, so what should be done is to enlighten these people by at least taking the question seriously, do i think that swords are dangerous? yes, should the questioners receive proper instruction? yes, but do you have to belittle someone who asks a legitamate question? no, if you dont like the question you dont have to post. if you want to contribute to a free exchange of ideas, then do so if you dont agree thats fine too, just give a proper reason why an item is functional or not, not an answer like no it isnt, seek proper instruction from a qualified trainer, when advice is asked simply give a reason why or why not, being overly critical of someone for asking a question that you think is silly doesent help anyone, and the querent is going to do what they want anyway regardless, so give good opinions now and maybe you will get better questions next time, lets try to get along and help each other out ok?

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#239043 - 03/16/06 05:34 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: littlemikey26]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
You have to understand that some questions have been asked literaly hundreds of times. As a new member, you have at your fingertips, years of information. All the forums have a backed up complete history- thousands of posts by hundreds of people on thousands of topics.
In your example- questions on cold steel and paul chen swords come up every week, it would take very little effort to search back a little to find all the info you need.
If you dont take the effort to find out what people have already said, why should they make the effort to say the same thing all over again just to save you a few clicks of your mouse? Quid pro quo

The question on functionality is a yes or no scenario. A sword is either suitable for cutting or it isnt. With the extra info, do you propose to by a cold steel sword, dismantle it, keep the blade and remount it in specialy tailored fittings? or maybe keep the fittings and source a high grade blade and then combine them? Either way, it would be easier and cheaper to just get a good quality shinken suitable for tameshigiri.
Maybe a better question would have been 'I have 'x' amount of money, what brand/model of sword would you recommend for cutting practice?' Now thats a question that allows for proper expansive discussion.

Regarding the 'consult a qualified instructor' comment. That is the best advice you will ever get. Since Kill bill the world and his wife have wanted to take up Kenjutsu/Iaito, but to do so safely and properly takes more than the right kind of sword. A proper instructor will hand you a bokken to work with, then after a year or so a blunt iaito. only after much practice and experience will the terms 'functional' and 'live blade' even be mentioned in relation to your practice. Swords are dangerous in the wrong hands. Without training, no matter how sincere your intentions, you are 'the wrong hands'.

Hope this helps clarify
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#239044 - 03/16/06 07:49 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: littlemikey26]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Cord is right on.

New folks just need to search the forums a bit before they post. Many of their questions have already been answered - several times. There are numerous stickies in several of the forums dedicated specifically to answering some of the most common questions.

If, after checking around and not finding the answer (or the question) that they are looking for, they are more than welcome to ask, and we will do our best to help out.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#239045 - 03/16/06 11:18 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: MattJ]
littlemikey26 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 11
Loc: michigan
allright that seems reasonable, thank you for taking the time to answer me, i mjust didnt want to get yelled at if some one thought my question was a bad one.

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#239046 - 03/18/06 03:29 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: littlemikey26]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
If you take the time to research the old posts then you wont be "yelled at".

Some of us get really sick of the same questions being asked when they were answered many times in the past... especially if the person asking hasnt bothered to look first.

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#239047 - 03/19/06 04:42 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: Reiki]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I just enjoy being a jerk.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#239048 - 03/25/06 08:32 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: littlemikey26]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
I'm with you!! The harshness seems a little too much to me as well. Especially in a forum where its about information sharing. Fine if the admin doesn't want to answer then let him move to the side and those that are will might be able to help someone here.

Also, I realize that a new person could use the search engines, but how are all the new people suppose to know. I mean we assume that everyone is literate enough to know how this the forum software functions as soon as they log on here. That is certainly not the cause for most of us. Mostly we just grope around until we get the hang of using forums like this. I do understand the that it might be frustrating to answer the same question over and over, but I also belong to a airgun forum, and I must answer some of the same questions 3-4 times per week repeatedly for new users.

That is just the nature of how thing work in chat forums. At least it has been since 1982 when I started. It just comes with the territory is all

Have a good day!!
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239049 - 03/25/06 09:35 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by gregc618

Quote:

Also, I realize that a new person could use the search engines, but how are all the new people suppose to know. I mean we assume that everyone is literate enough to know how this the forum software functions as soon as they log on here. That is certainly not the cause for most of us. Mostly we just grope around until we get the hang of using forums like this.




Sorry. I did not make myself clear. When I said "search", I really meant "read". I agree that the search function is a bit obtuse. But just scanning through the forum posts and stickies will answer a lot of the most commmon ones.

That's all we ask.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#239050 - 03/25/06 02:00 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

I'm with you!! The harshness seems a little too much to me as well. Especially in a forum where its about information sharing.




This forum IS about information sharing and the fact is the information HAS been shared several times in most cases. While it is true there are no stupid questions, there are a lot of lazy people with the same question. Why should the moderators and admin, or other members for that matter, take time out to answer the same questions over and over when there are other more pertinent issues they could be discussing. The staff here are here on a voluntary basis and shouldn't be chastised for not catering to the lack of effort of others. The fact that this thread was started tells me that this "attitude" has been expressed in more than a few threads. If this is the case then any new member would recognize the need to do a little research of their own prior to starting a thread. If they don't know this then that tells me they didn't even have the foresight to look at any threads. So why should anyone bend over backwards for them?

Quote:

Fine if the admin doesn't want to answer then let him move to the side and those that are will might be able to help someone here.





The fact that admin or any of the staff has responded to a post doesn't prevent anyone else from responding. If another member or staff member wants to respond to a question they are more than welcome. Unless of course the thread has been locked.

Quote:

Also, I realize that a new person could use the search engines, but how are all the new people suppose to know.




Perhaps if they read the first thread in this, and most sections, that very plainly reads " ALL PLEASE READ **AGAIN** ". It would be number 3 in that thread.

Quote:

I mean we assume that everyone is literate enough to know how this the forum software functions as soon as they log on here. That is certainly not the cause for most of us. Mostly we just grope around until we get the hang of using forums like this.




I've learned long ago not to assume anything about people. I would however prefer it if those who don't know how to use the search function DID "grope around" the forum for a bit before starting a thread. It would cut down on about 75% of the recurring questions.

Quote:

I do understand the that it might be frustrating to answer the same question over and over, but I also belong to a airgun forum, and I must answer some of the same questions 3-4 times per week repeatedly for new users.





You’re not on another forum. You’re on a martial arts forum and most of us feel the same way about the use of this forum as we do about training. If you’re to lazy to do a little work why should be do it for you?

Quote:

That is just the nature of how thing work in chat forums. At least it has been since 1982 when I started. It just comes with the territory is all





Is this supposed to be an excuse for people to be lazy? "It's been that way since 1982" isn't an excuse for people to be lazy and it doesn't have to be catered to. Catering to it only perpetuates it.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#239051 - 03/25/06 03:43 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: MattJ]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Thankyou Lane & Matt.

Many people joining a new forum usually take time to browse the old posts to get a feel for the place and to see if there has been a discussion prior to their topic before they post.

What I find interesting here is the number of people [usually the younger ones] who don't bother to look before they speak.

Or they launch into an attack on the moderator of the forum because they wont tell them how to <and please forgive this example!> "PLZ TEL ME WHR 2FND MKG KI BALL?" and then get irate when the mod locks the topic or some of the old timers step in and ask them to stop speaking in txtspk etc.

Would you do this in your own dojo? With what respect to you approach your instructor or dojo leader?

We are all here because of a common interest in the martial arts. Some of us give up spare time we dont really have to moderate here because we want to keep the site growing.

So enough with the whinging!
The rules are the rules and that's that.

We are here to talk about weapons.... so get talking!
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#239052 - 03/31/06 10:24 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: laf7773]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
I'm going to skip all this nonsense that you seem willing to post, and just leave you with this. This is a help forum (well I hope it is) and not your personal toy to play insultive persona with (At least I hope someone makes u see that soon). It is far easier to help someone than to try and be their enemy. We all study MA, but alas there seems to be some that only learn the pyhsical side, and nothing about how to change the inner-self. I mean that is what MA is really about, anyone can break a board, brick or some tiles. I would hope that one day your Master get through to you that is about how you treat people that gains you respec, and not hitting people in the back of the head with a Bo staff that makes people respect you simply because you've attacked them.

If you're looking to trade insults, and not help then you've come to the right place. Private msg me and we can get start with me knocking you for trying to be a smart A, simply because you believe you have a free pass to be a pain in the butt!

So far I've seen nothing from you but attitude (which is fine I can certainly adjust that for you), but you seem to get in the way of alot a good meaning adminstrators and people that take the time to try and help. You also seem to spend an abundant ammount of time co-signing for admins here, which leaves me to beleive you're looking to get a slot here as one. From what you shown thus far.. Lord help us all if they allow you admin privis here!!! I'm starting to wonder if you've got someone's hand up your back working your hands and mouth, or if I'm out of place for saying this to you because you're just a child that doesnt know any better.

In any event dont bother to reply back here, if you want to clown then lets do it in private I function well with no audience looking on to see what is said, unlike what you seem to have a need for!

So anytime you're ready you know where to find me, since this is my last response about this in the open to you.




Quote:

So why should anyone bend over backwards for them?




You seem smart!.. Well maybe I was wrong after all you did ask the above question. Tell me that you're only kidding plz.




Quote:

Perhaps if they read the first thread in this, and most sections, that very plainly reads " ALL PLEASE READ **AGAIN** ". It would be number 3 in that thread.




Let me guess you practice very hard at being snide!.. It doesnt become you at all. Under that ugly layer you keep tossin out is a really nice guy. I just know there is!.. Hopefully, because you just cant be that obnoxious in real life. You cant make me beleive that you actually think what you've posted is productive conversation. I only wonder what picture post like yours tend to leave the NEWBIES with (You know us lazy users that you keep refering to)




Quote:

You’re not on another forum. You’re on a martial arts forum and most of us feel the same way about the use of this forum as we do about training. If you’re to lazy to do a little work why should be do it for you?
Quote:

I mean we assume that everyone is literate enough to know how this the forum software functions as soon as they log on here. That is certainly not the cause for most of us. Mostly we just grope around until we get the hang of using forums like this.




I take it back!.. You sounding more like a brat with each line. Suggestion, why are you trying so hard to get in a fight with people that really dont want to fight with you? Is this some kind of power thing that you're on? Or is it just that you dont know how to be cordial to people.. I'm going to say this again. You have no fight here unless you'd care to privitize it.



You know the place if you want some ... hit me up! I really didnt come here for this EGO tripping personality thing that some like to display!

You have a nice day!!!
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239053 - 03/31/06 10:42 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Greg, personal insults are not allowed on this site. If you have a problem with Lane(laf7773), then, as you say so many times, take it to pm or email. You will not be allowed to spew any more of your drivel here.



For your information, Lane was a moderator here and did a great job. He stepped down due to personal reasons and still contributes to the site.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#239054 - 03/31/06 11:00 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: Reiki]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Many people joining a new forum usually take time to browse the old posts to get a feel for the place and to see if there has been a discussion prior to their topic before they post.




Some of us have the time to set for extended amounts of time to learn how a board functions in a day or two, but I would imagine there are more like me who have schedules that dont allow for setting to go through to see what functions are built into this software. Instead we learn as we go. I would think that would be the majority here. I could be wrong though!


Quote:

Or they launch into an attack on the moderator of the forum because they wont tell them how to <and please forgive this example!> "PLZ TEL ME WHR 2FND MKG KI BALL?" and then get irate when the mod locks the topic or some of the old timers step in and ask them to stop speaking in txtspk etc.




I would agree that beating up the moderator for no reason is not fair at all.

Quote:

Would you do this in your own dojo? With what respect to you approach your instructor or dojo leader?




I'm afraid so! You have to uderstand that in our Do Jang Master Song constantly ask on a daily basis if we have any questions. There is not one assistant instructor that anyone cant go to and ask virtually any question. It doesnt matter how many times he has/she has answered before, they dont care about how dumb we might think we sound if we ask.

They tell us that they have not done their jobs correctly if we are walking away with unanswered questions. Maybe (not trying to offend anyone here b4 I get jumped) Dojos do it differently? I take it from your text above that in a Dojo it might not be wise to ask too many questions?

Quote:

We are all here because of a common interest in the martial arts. Some of us give up spare time we dont really have to moderate here because we want to keep the site growing.




Hats off to those of you that choose to take a big part of your days to admin this forum. It more than a job to do what you guys do here for any 50 people let alone the few of you that actually care enough to do what it is you do here.

Quote:

So enough with the whinging!




If I might ask! Why is what was asked considered whining? Is this not a place to ask questions when you dont have the answers?


Thank you very much


Edited by gregc618 (03/31/06 11:09 AM)
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239055 - 03/31/06 11:21 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Moderators moderate. Some are moderate...but not all. The more experienced ones have the ability to answer specific questions from personal knowledge...but that doesn't mean they have to.

The need to keep balance and perspective is a challenge for everyone...not just stressed out volunteers.

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#239056 - 03/31/06 11:35 AM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Lane is a respected and longtime member here.....who are you?

Real name? fill out your profile? MA background? introduce yourself? maybe mention how those TKD shoes are working out for you....

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#239057 - 03/31/06 02:30 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I believe that Reiki's quote of
Quote:

Would you do this in your own dojo? With what respect to you approach your instructor or dojo leader?



Is suppose to apply to
Quote:

then get irate when the mod locks the topic or some of the old timers step in and ask them to stop speaking in txtspk etc.





Not the actual task of asking a question, but of getting irate at the mods/instructors.

Maybe a rephrase is in order.

Do you go to your instructor and say:
"Yo, homie, wazzup with that funky shizznit you pulled back dere in dat class? Wazzat s'pose ta mean? Feed me da down low on dat, a'ight!"

I think not. And if you did, I doubt your instructor would be very generous in helping you out.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#239058 - 03/31/06 03:31 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: harlan]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Moderators moderate. Some are moderate...but not all. The more experienced ones have the ability to answer specific questions from personal knowledge...but that doesn't mean they have to.

The need to keep balance and perspective is a challenge for everyone...not just stressed out volunteers.




I agree, that is why I'm trying not to fall off this log while I'm standing on one leg!!!

Thanks for replying
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239059 - 03/31/06 03:41 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: Ed_Morris]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Lane is a respected and longtime member here.....who are you?




Respect is earned not a given, so I guess we all haven't gotten that far yet.

I am who I am!!!... Just as any of us are, I'm just another set of numbers (IP) logged onto a server. That is all we ever are for ther most part. Also remember, out here on the net you can be anyone you want to be.

Quote:

Real name? fill out your profile? MA background? introduce yourself? maybe mention how those TKD shoes are working out for you....




You're looking at my real name.. Did you think I made Greg up?.hahaha! The C denotes my last name, and 618 is where I am located. That is probably a lot more info by just reading my name then most include when they sign in or write a post.

I didn't want to fill out a profile, and if you have read anything written my me you already know its TKD/Chang Hon style under the WFMA banner.

I also have an interest in Han Kuk Mu Ki Do/Jang tan-do (which by the way noone seems to practice here thus far).

Ohh well someone will show up sooner or later.

BTW, that was (2) two pairs of shoes!!...lol

Take Care!!


Edited by gregc618 (03/31/06 03:53 PM)

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#239060 - 03/31/06 03:46 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: JoelM]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Maybe a rephrase is in order.

Do you go to your instructor and say:
"Yo, homie, wazzup with that funky shizznit you pulled back dere in dat class? Wazzat s'pose ta mean? Feed me da down low on dat, a'ight!"

I think not. And if you did, I doubt your instructor would be very generous in helping you out.




You already know he'd slap me silly for trying to pull that one off...hahahaha!!

And shouldnt that have been?... Yo, sup Daaaaaawwg?

Wazzup with that funky shizznit you pulled back dere in dat class? Wazzat s'pose ta mean? Feed me da down low on dat, a'ight!!


Edited by gregc618 (03/31/06 03:47 PM)
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239061 - 03/31/06 03:51 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Not exactly sure what you accomplished by writing the same thing that I did, but ok...

Now you know what Reiki was talking about. She wasn't opposed to asking questions at a dojo or on here, but at reacting badly when you don't get the answer that you want.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#239062 - 03/31/06 07:31 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: JoelM]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Not exactly sure what you accomplished by writing the same thing that I did, but ok...




Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you mean you didn't get that one????... I was sure you'd get it right off the bat. My attempt is more authentic. So from that point of view I see mine as more qualified (the instructor if you will VERSUS the learning from a book/video)

sidebar: Homie is sorta kinda out of style now!! ...hehehehe! (its really a joke, but you didnt get it)


Quote:

Now you know what Reiki was talking about. She wasn't opposed to asking questions at a dojo or on here, but at reacting badly when you don't get the answer that you want.




Problem noone said that up until now (at least a since I have been here). All I had seen was that some people were tired of others asking about weaps training via books and disk. I actually do agree with the position that you need an instructor. But you know like I do almost all of us have looked at some sort of printed material or someone's video in an effort to broaden our knowledge.

But I still agree that you need to make sure that you have someone that can instruct you and keep in on the right path, which is a far cry from my brain being unable to function/process in a manner that I cant learn from printed material without an instructor.

Take my dilemma for example. I'd like to get info on the art of Han Kuk Mu Ki Do, with specific regards to Jang tan-do. I thus far haven't found anyone that is able to reply with any information, and all I'm looking for is history for the most part. I cant believe that there are no TKD instructors or students that hang out here, that are unable to supply me with a push(s) in the right direction. So I'm still awaiting a reply from anyone that might be able to help...

Take Care!!


Edited by gregc618 (03/31/06 08:09 PM)
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239063 - 03/31/06 08:03 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: JoelM]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Quote:

Greg, personal insults are not allowed on this site.




You're right I probably shouldnt have taken jabs at him, but just how many times am I suppose to let him talk down to me before I say anything?

So Im sorry for bring what I said to the forum since ur right it has no place, but I meant every word I said to him.
I am not going to be bullied by him or anyone else in and chat forum. I came to have fun not fight, but how am I suppose to do that if I have to read snide comments pointed at me?

Quote:

If you have a problem with Lane(laf7773), then, as you say so many times, take it to pm or email.




As you are aware by now I have already invited him to private msgs if he feels that he still needs to insult me.
I dont have a problem with anyone here, but Im certainly not a stepping stone!! If he stay out of my way then I'll stay out of his. That fair?


Quote:

You will not be allowed to spew any more of your drivel here.




And you still wondder why I hit back after I get hit in here?... drivel?????? Did you really have to go there with the insultive thing?

Again I'm trying to stay out of a fight with some of you, and for the life of me I cant understand why a few here feel this need to flex.


Quote:

For your information, Lane was a moderator here and did a great job. He stepped down due to personal reasons and still contributes to the site.




Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. There are sonme really good admins here, and I realize that style can vary. but I have to wonder how u stop a new person from fighting it you find urself capable of being an example of one with the abilty to fight?

I guess I'm asking how do you stop a fight if you're in the middle throwing blows? I did not come here to fight, but it seems some people have a need to keep swinging at me.

Take care, and again sorry for toss mud on this Lane guy. I shouldnt have done it in the open.
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#239064 - 03/31/06 08:32 PM Re: answers to questions: why so harsh? [Re: gregc618]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
This discussion has been taken to PM.

Moral of the story?

Do not insult other members, discussions are fine, but if you cannot justify your point without lowering yourself to name calling and character assassination, then do not post.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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