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#238773 - 03/15/06 01:50 PM Throw immediately?
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 535
Loc: U.S. of A.
When you are doing your Judo or JJ, once you grab a hold do you want to try a throw immediately with no hesitation?

I mean like as you approach as soon as you get a hold of the lapel or sleeve you want to quickly yank them hard and do a throw regardless of what they are doing.

I am always so unsure of myself when it comes to throws which I am sure will go away, but I am always worried about what Uke or my opponent is going to do.
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#238774 - 03/15/06 04:16 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
If Uke is not concentrating, or if they are not warmed up, tuned into the fight, it is possible to catch them cold straight away. I have seen it happen. Two people walk in, one is not switched on straight away and BHAM! They're looking up at the roof.... =o!

Don't always try to throw, but always look to throw. There are rhythms in a fight. There are times in a fight where you can execute a throw. Don't concentrate on what you want, sense the rhythm of the fight.

Always use a combination of attacks. Always make Uke work. If your first attack does not work, move on to the next one, then the next one, then the next one... until you get one.

Try and size Uke up, see what type of fighther they are. Don't go dving in for a throw always. For instance, a friend of mine I train with is about the same height as me, but he weighs 240 pounds (about 119 kilos) plus. He is strong, and has fair technique. I notice though in our fights that he tires very quickly. So I don't try and throw him straight away. I move him around, do a lot of sweeps to keep him off balance and keep him moving. I open him up and feign a lot of throws. I work on breaking his grips, then making it hard for him to get them back on. With about 30 seconds left of randori, he is breathing hard, he is sweeting, he is red in the face. I feel his grips on me, and they weaker, when I try to move him, its easier. This is the time I will try and throw him, when he is most vunerable. For each opponent, you must find the rhythm and take your chance. It could come at any moment.

One final note: Do not concern yourself with what Uke will do. Let Uke come. Uke is like you, to him/her, you are Uke. Many will tell you that, when two people line up, where you stand, you are Tori, and person in the space opposite you is Uke. Incorrect. Always Tori is where you stand, and Uke is always in the same place; not in front of you, but in your mind. This is where Uke must be overcome!
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#238775 - 03/15/06 05:40 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
ScottO Offline
de riddim master

Registered: 02/18/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Everywhere, Nowhere
I just wrote a reply for this and then Xed out the window

Let's see if I can remember what I said.


It depends on the situation. I know, over-used reply.

He tells you what to do. He controls how badly he's going to be messed up given that he is looking for trouble and you are in his way.
If there is energy given to use for a throw and you know this guy's threatening to you and the situation can become violent because you're examining the situation, then throw to stop him from hurting you.

I won't favor throwing personally from a grab right now because a grab says to me, "just holding, no energy in one particular direction" excluding how tight he's grabbing you. I'm talking about direction. It would be much easier for me to step off the line of his attack and slipping out of his grip and backing up into what I've been taught and yadda yadda...being vocal....all that noise...

EDIT: By slipping out his grip I mean escaping out of his weakest point of his grab which is most likely the fingers. Just to clear that up for anyone who read that and raised one eyebrow in disbelief.

You know what, disregard what I said and ask your instructor for an answer.

These posts should all be extra-topping or nothing at all.


Edited by ScottO (03/15/06 05:44 PM)
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#238776 - 03/15/06 05:57 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

....I mean like as you approach as soon as you get a hold of the lapel or sleeve you want to quickly yank them hard and do a throw regardless of what they are doing.





Yank them hard? That doesn't sound like "ju-do" to me.

What you want to look for is "suki" - the opening, or create the opening with pull/push.

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#238777 - 03/15/06 07:06 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: ScottO]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Situation dictates......

Is a throw appropriate?

Could it put you in a worse situation?

...and so on.....
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#238778 - 03/15/06 09:14 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: Fletch1]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
When I teach judo at our school, I encourage the students to throw "right out of the box" after they bow in to any contest. The reason is that it is the easiest time to both upset the other player's balance and to do a "quick entry" throw.

Where a lot of schools teach "fighting for grip", we control the opponent's balance with their grip on us, and it makes a lot more sense to upset their balance by making them think they have the advantage than having them playing defensively against us. Way too many competitive players don't realize that "attachment" or grip doesn't have to be "their grip". Once you're attached to the other person, you're attached, and by using your body movement, you can control everything they do.

If you're throwing in contest, bust'em early. Then you get to rest.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#238779 - 06/17/07 05:10 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
musicalmike235 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 64
Against an experienced grappler, you have to work for a throw. Trying to throw the guy immediately won't work. You have to get him to lower his guard.

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#238780 - 07/15/07 11:46 PM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: musicalmike235]
badeofblade Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 46
I say, if your opponent is distracted or has poor balance (inherently or situationally), go for a cold throw, but if he is in a strong stance/tough, kuzushi is the way to go. Depends on the opponent and the situation.
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Scientific Street Fighter|Weapon of Choice = Combat Boots|Tool of Choice = Elbows

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#238781 - 07/18/07 11:56 AM Re: Throw immediately? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
Of course you want to do the throw as quickly as possible.
One of my teachers said "every time you touch a man he should feel pain".
Then of course there's the kazushi or breaking the balance that will lead to the throw. This should also happen as soon as you make contact.

The idea of "quickly giving him a hard yank" sounds more like an Americanized version of the Japanese Martial Arts. This requires that you be stronger than your attacker/uke.

By your user name, I assume you train in Goju Ryu. The JU in goJU is the same JU as in JUdo and JUjutsu - soft, pliable, yielding. Learn to yield and you will start to learn to throw.

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