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#238427 - 03/13/06 06:54 PM ATTN: Globetrotter
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Hi, I'm curious about the training you've experienced(military,SD, close quarter combat, etc.) and what systems you believe to be effective, or that you practice, your take on Krav Maga, etc.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#238428 - 03/14/06 12:09 AM Re: ATTN: Globetrotter [Re: Stormdragon]
prospero Offline
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#238429 - 03/14/06 12:57 AM Re: ATTN: Globetrotter [Re: prospero]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Oh yeah I forgot about that, thanks.
_________________________
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#238430 - 03/14/06 04:20 PM Re: ATTN: Globetrotter [Re: Stormdragon]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
SD,

here is a post on something similar from a while back:



Quote:
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Quote:
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this is definatly an existing israeli style. I think that you would have to really know your stuff to be able to tell them appart. the main reason for the divisions is political and marketing, I believe.

one thing about israeli instructors to remember - in the israeli army, being an "instructor" is not very prestigious. people who were combatants in even the best units only get about 8 weeks total krav training, and more likely 5 or 6, so the fact that a person was in the army, or was a "shooting instructor" is borderline marketing BS, it doesn't mean that he knows krav any better than somebody from LA who has been practising for a while. it just means that he may have actually had a chance to use it in real life, and that he was tough enought to get through the training in the army.


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Honest Question..

If I have been taking Krav for over a year, am former military and former LEO, target shoot on a regular basis, run and weight lift... I have had more training in MA and firearms than most Isreali soldiers?


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first of all, Ranger, you were ex army, you know how it is... 50% of the army just move things around or fill in papers, right? then you have artillary, airforce, navy, and to a lesser extent tanks, they really don't need that much small arms and H2H training, right? then you have line infantry, they need very little h2h, and a lot of rifle and squad and company weapon training. so then you have the special forces, maybe 1000 guys at any one time, plus reserves.

so I would say that you definatly have had more pistol training, weight training, and martial arts training than 90% of the israeli army.

I don't think that you can, in a civillian enviroment, compare the rifle and squad weapons training with what an israeli line infantry man gets, I honestly don't think that units like the 101 airborne or the 10th mountain get the same level of small arms training that israeli line infantry get - there is no way to get to that. but they probrably only get 2 weeks of h2h and then a few hours a week for their whole service.

what the special forces get is something else entirly - and maybe you have learned more different things in krav than somebody from the special forces- the training is very intense, but focused on the useful parts that will be used often and realisitically. but the training is maybe 18 hours a day for months on end, and when you do something wrong, your whole unit will lose sleep and run up hills all night with heavy packs as punishment. the quality is hard to imagine. in terms of physical fitness - we did a 25 mile hike with each 4 men carrying a 80 kilo stretcher, plus your own 25 or so kilo pack, we did a 75 mile run, with 25 kilo packs, in 24 hours in very hot weather, we did end to end 4 hour marathons (do one, rest a few minutes, do another, that kind of thing. so we were in great shape. we didn't touch free weights, though, although that may have changed.

the big differences

1. israeli soldiers live with their firearms, and are under constant threat. you get an assult rifle when you get in, you give it back when you get out, it is with you all the time in between.

2. a lot of team training, in live ammo, in difficult situations - picture going into a dark room, with block walls that create dust, with 3 other guys, shooting at targets on 3 walls with assult rifles in live ammo and in full gear - I don't think that this is how the US army trains.

3. very very intense training of the things that are considered useful. so while you might not get too many different krav applications, you might do one set of strikes over and over, for 18 hours, with one instructor watching 4 people and correcting you and critiquing you and keeping you motivated. and then the same thing the next day, and the next day.

I believe, but have no evidence, that most of the people who are in teh states teaching krav who say that they were in the special forces were line infantry, and that most of what they learned in krav, they actually learned afterwords. most people who were in the israeli special forces do pretty well afterwords, its sort of like having gone to harvard, and you either get into a government job, or a good private sector job, or you end up training african mercenaries. you don't end up in LA teaching kids krav. that is my opinion, not based on any facts other than personal experience.

another thing, related to your question, a 6 week course in krav that a special forces soldier takes in israel will be about 500 hours of training. so a year at 10 hours a week is about that. then you have to figure what is better - to have the intensity of the full course, but the fatigue you get, or the course stretched out over a year, with time to digest it and rest your muscles, but without the same level of intensity.

so it is hard to say.
does that answer your question?

Edited by globetrotter (12/30/05 10:49 AM)


in terms of the training at wingate, it was very intense - it is a base in the snad dunes, surrounded by orange orchards, on the beach. we would have very intesive physical activities - running in the sand dunes, and around the archards, swimming in the sea, as well as running a very hard obstical course whose "pass" time was 27 minutes (some things you don't forget after 20 years). every time we went from place to place in the base, we had to run, all day long. about 18 hours a day, 6 days a week. we did maybe 3 20 minute sessions of streching a day, as well as maybe an hour or hour and a half of cardio, and a little weightlifting. then working on krav moves, sparing, and "agression games" - like improvised rugby and tackle tag and stuff like that. first for a 2 week session, then for a 6 week session. with a very high teacher/student ratio - maybe 2 students to a teacher, or close to it.

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