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#238315 - 03/13/06 12:46 PM Knife arts
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
The lead article re: knife defense got me thinking again. This topic is rarely discussed because, IMO, not that many people are proficient enough in Real techniques. I've seen too many demo's that show the simple "thrust & hold the pose" attack while the defender goes Jet Li in the knife-wielding "statue". My reaction is always a mix of pity & "grave" amusement.

While knowing knife arts (as in how to stab & slash) is beneficial, the author makes a valid point in addressing the issue of how to react. Of course, many of the reactions learned in empty-hand techniques can aid in staying alive (range of engagement, timing etc.) but many more can get you killed or seriously injured.

I'm posting for 3 reasons: 1) feedback on the article, 2) who among you train w/ knives & 3) which systems do you employ/who is your instructor? If all you do is the "poke & freeze" method (beyond the initial learning phase), please leave space for the others who go beyond that.

Thanks

BTW: Other than wearing a stab vest, not much can be done re: prison shank attacks.

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#238316 - 03/13/06 01:36 PM Re: Knife arts [Re: hedkikr]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i train in both using and defending against knife attacks in kali and JKD.
As well as drills involving locks redirects and disarms, we also spar. This involves wearing MMA style gloves (for pretection but maintaining articulation) and using a wooden training blade with red chalk rubbed into the 'edge' of the blade. The idea is simple, the attacker has the knife and use of all four limbs and tries to 'cut' you up as bad as possible whilst you defend with evasion and techniques. The role of attacker is either 'won' by the defender making a successful disarm, or is relinquished after 90 seconds on the basis that the defender would be comfortably dead in that time had the defence not gone well.
inbetween rounds, red chalk marks are noted and related to the injuries you would have sustained in those instances. From here you can work out your 'survival' percentage for the session. Best I have ever got was 13%
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#238317 - 03/13/06 02:15 PM Re: Knife arts [Re: hedkikr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I have had some knife training in both AKK and JKD. Can't really say that I held either in very high regard. Knife fight is a losing proposition for the defender.

Really don't train much for that circumstance, as I have yet to see anything really effective for it - except distance.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#238318 - 03/14/06 04:24 AM Re: Knife arts [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I agree with Mat, when we do it, it is always done as way of a sharp reminder (pardon the pun) of how unlikely it is to come off well against an armed attacker; and also as an exercise it does help bring focus to your defence and footwork for general sparring.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#238319 - 03/14/06 07:01 PM Re: Knife arts [Re: hedkikr]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
We cover knife work later on in our arnis syllabus, I have done a number of special classes on knife defences but I still believe that your best defence is to not be there in that situation, and make sure that you can escape and run if you are.

Good footwork is essential in moving the body out of the direct line of the knife, and some of the bokken/jo drills will help form that good footwork habit of circling and splitting and keeping the body out of the line.

The new edged weapon that I'm playing with at the moment is a medium length spear, both used to stab and to throw at speed from a horse.

While it might be an "easy" weapon to handle on the ground, once you factor in the "other partner" and the speed, things start to get very *interesting* and often rather scary at times!
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