Hi All,

Promted by the wrist grab thread, below are the accepted top 10 acts of violence in the UK, taken from police figures (male on male). There are a load of notes that go with it, but I am just going to list them and put a short summary after,

Hope it is of help with anyone looking to have a good realistic self defence aspect to their art -

1. attacker pushes, defender pushes back, attacker throws a swinging punch to the head

2. a swinging punch to the head

3. a front clothing grab, one handed, followed by punch to head

4. 2 handed front clothing grab, followed by headbutt

5. 2 handed front clothing grab followed by knee to groin

6. bottle, glass or ashtray to the head, swinging

7. a lashing kick to groin/lower legs

8. a bottle,glass jabbed to face

9. a slash with a knife, usually 3-4 inch lockblade or kitchen knife

10. a grappling style headlock

most of our self defence training should be against a swinging punch to the head, the top 2 spots.

85% of people lead with a right handed punch, train accordingly.

3,4,5 are grabs, you got your distance wrong, ignore grab and attack.

6,8,9 are weapons, 3/10 top attacks are with weapons - shocking reality.

7. against a kick angle in or out to attack, do not go back or the following punch will get you

10. headlock, back or side is very common if the initial attack fails.

In my dojo we also train 3 'grappling' situations -

a. front rugby tackle attack, the shoot

b. having been knockdown, attacker straddles and pounds

c. having been knocked down, attacker kicks to face and body

This info is a combination of 'others' certain theorys and reports and my own expierience and is shared in the spirit of budo. please dont sue me!


Look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments

Any male on female figures to go with those, hun?

thats a nice reference Sho...thanks! It would be interesting to see how similar the stats are for other countries. I'll try and find the U.S. one.

I've got a copy of the figures Europe wide somewhere and if I'm not mistaken they are exactly the same as for the UK.

Here is the list of HAPV from an early list by Patrick McCarthy, all credit being his:

1. Swinging punches
2. Straight punches
3. Downward strikes
4. Upward strikes
5. Swinging kicks
6. Straight kicks & knee strikes
7. Head-butt/spitting
8. Biting
9. Testicle squeeze
10. Augmented foot/leg trips
11. Single/double-hand hair pull from the front/rear
12. Single/double-hand choke from the front/rear
13. Front neck choke from rear
14. Classical head-lock
15. Front, bent-over, augmented choke (neck-hold)
16. Half/full-nelson
17. Rear over-arm bearhug (& side variation)
18. Rear under-arm bearhug (& side variation)
19. Front over-arm bearhug (& side variation)
20. Front under-arm bearhug (& side variation)
21. Front/rear tackle
22. One-handed wrist grab (same & opposite sides-normal/reversed)
23. Two-handed wrist grabs (normal/reversed)
24. Both wrists seized from the front/rear
25. Both arms seized from the front/rear
26. Single/double shoulder grab from front/rear
27. Arm-lock (behind the back)
28. Front arm-bar (triceps tendon fulcrum up supported by wrist)
29. Side arm-bar (triceps tendon fulcrum down supported by wrist)
30. Single/double lapel grab
31. Single/double-hand shove
32. Garment pulled over the head
33. Seized & impact
34. Single/double leg/ankle grab from the front (side/rear)
35. Ground straddle
36. Attacked (kicked/struck) while down

Are these in any particular order?

I see single and double handed wrist grabs are pretty low on the list, as is lapel grabs.

are you trying to be funny? j/k

I clipped this from another site...I haven't verified it. not sure what the order represents or which demographic this is for. I'll check into it....

Unfortunatly not, however I will go on a quest to find them!

Of course Pat McCarthys HAPV is a most solid reference for this kind of thing.

What I have done is cross referenced HAPV, with detail provided by Ian Abernathy Sensei (the UK stats/descriptions), details / expierience with one of my karate Seniors, my own expierience on the street and a big slice of common sense. however the ones listed are in order of most likely, giving us a good short course for physical self defence.

And of course its male on male, so one can assume a lot of after closing time action is involved.........

Some more info hot of the press, i havent worked this stuff yet or cross referenced it -


Offences against the person, male on female
These are listed in frequency order.
This data was gathered from interviews with victims and offenders and from statements. Data only covers robbery/sexual methodology and changes relative to first contact with victim ie., venue/ night/day etc.
Domestic violence is not covered as this is a specific subject of its' own.

1. The victim was approached from the rear/side/front, a threat was made with a weapon, and then the weapon was hidden. Then the victim's right upper arm was held by the attacker's left hand and the victim was led away.

2. A silent or rushing approach was made from the victim's rear, and then a rear neck/head lock applied and the victim dragged away.

3. The same approach as in #2, with a rear waist grab. The victim was carried/dragged away, normally into bushes/alley etc.

4. The victim was pinned to a wall with a throat grab with the attacker's left hand. A weapon-shown threat was made, and then the weapon hidden, and the victim led away.

5. The victim was approached from rear/ front/side. The attacker grabbed the victim's hair with his left hand, and then she was dragged away.

The Most Common Wrist Grips, Male On Female.

1. The attacker's left hand, thumb uppermost, gripping the victim's raised right wrist. The attacker threatens/ gesticulates with his right hand.

2. With the victim's right arm down, the attacker grips the victim's right upper arm with his left hand and her right wrist with his right hand.

3. The victim raises both arms, with both of her wrists gripped. The attacker's hands are vertical with the attacker's thumbs uppermost.

4. With the victim's arms down, the attacker grabs both upper arms.

5. With the victim's right arm down, the attacker's left hand grabs just below the right elbow, and his right hand grabs her wrist.

A fact worth mentioning at this point is that research shows that women who violently resist, whether the attack is successful or not, cope with the aftershock and trauma (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome) better than those who go quietly and hope they won't be hurt. Very few who do resist get badly battered or cut.

Research/profiling seems to indicate that if an attacker is likely to batter or stab, it will happen whether resistance is given or not.

all given in the name of budo, its frightening stuff but reality in the small % of 'incidents'.

So, the most frequent assault on females, outside of domestic abuse, includes the use of a weapon?

'Data only covers robbery/sexual methodology'.

The data is specific as it states, however robbery and sexual assault would seem to be the 2 aspects of self protection that many women are concerned about, its not pretty reading.

As is 3 of the top 10 (re frequency) male on male attacks in the UK involve a 'weapon' these days.

We also have to take into account that these are based on interview statistics taken by the police, lesser offences (ie no weapon involved perhaps) may/arnt reported and as frequently.

Excellent, informative thread, shoshinkan! Great job.

hey with the money you pay me Matt, its easy work.......

Thanks for that, Jim. Not pretty reading, as you said, but certainly useful.

Its not nice is it, but thats the way of the world.

As long as we understand these things in the scheme of things, genuine serious violent attacks are still rare at best.

Its weird because I actually question the ammount of martial artists that really are interested (myself included) primarily for self defense, some of course genuinly are but i bet if we all took truth tests the number would actually be very low................!

Well...it is the primary reason why I study kobudo/weapons.

Having seen another of your posts I totally can see why that is, fair enough.

I have been in a 'bottle' attack (thrown at me), and also a group attack where some had knifes (not directly on me though), there was also an 'incident' where im convinced the guy had a weapon but it wasnt drawn.

But in all honesty I dont train specifically for weapon defence as my primary reason for practising karatedo, however I do keep looking at weapons specific training at a higher level than I do already.

The figures posted suggest I should look a this more specifically, which im going to do with immediate effect.

I was asked by Shoshinkan to bring my RAD workshop into the thread (so all you tough LEO types...be nice to this old lady ).

I recently took a self defense workshop that covered some of the scenarios above.

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15833252/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

My personal fear has always been being grabbed from behind, with a knife (number one in the above list ), and I can say that RAD covered this assualt in the basic workshop...but without the weapon. After going through it, I would suggest that any normal female check out the system.

Thanks Harlan for the links and points you raise,

I think this topic is very important for us all and we should all make the best contributions we can to it, hopefully it will help anyone looking into realistic self defense more aware of the relevant physical assaults that are common in reality, we can then train accordingly.

H,

"My personal fear has always been being grabbed from behind, with a knife (number one in the above list ), and I can say that RAD covered this assualt in the basic workshop...but without the weapon"


I think awareness is the only realistic defence for that situation. Everything else is a coin toss.

Yes, I agree with you. And the RAD workshop that I took did heavily emphasize that awareness, not being a 'victim waiting to happen' was most important. That, and being lucky.

ExCon found some good info to add here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...72#Post15927533

Thank you very much. A very worthy and informative topic

I'd just like to add that although useful, I wouldn't consider Patrick McCarthy's HAPV list as the best source.

Why? he quoted no studies for his list.
He states he has partially reverse engineered his list from kata movements. This can be deceiving as you may think a move is designed for a specific attack when in actuality it is useful against a broad range of attacks. This means it's open to an individuals biased interpretation.

Shoshinkan is quoting statistics from a British Home Office Study. I saw no reference on McCarthy's site to any recent studies providing statistics. To quote his HAPV article directly:

"During my study I gradually modified the classical empty-handed attack scenarios to best exemplify those acts of physical violence commonly found in today’s western society, and fortified the experience by developing many variations on these common themes."

and

"Challenging myth and tradition, I used eclecticism and critical thinking, as immutable devices in deciphering the time-honoured enigma called kata."

Now, I'm not criticizing his efforts to move kata / bunkai study forward. In fact, I admire and applaud them. In fact, his ideas helped me think in new directions. For such hard work and open mindedness, he is to be respected.

However, based on his own statements, I'd rather use a list compiled from a peer reviewed study like Shohsinkan and exCon posted.

Been awhile since I've trotted over to the Federal Repository on campus (it's filled with reams of stats on crime).

Any good Federal links that anyone can find?

USA Bureau of Justice crime statistics -

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

Not as detailed as I would like, but it's the closest thing I can find.

In shoshinkan's list, the number one attack is with a weapon. In the US, I heard that "weapons" of the typical kind (gun, knife, etc) were highly restricted in the UK through comprehensive laws severely restricitng or fobidding their possession by citizens? What type of weapon is refered to then?

Good question. I would assume knife, since guns are heavily restricted there. Shoshinkan also montions bottle, glass or ashtray attacks. But I assume those are more the bar-fight scene, as opposed to robbery/rape situations.

Disturbing: http://www.thearma.org/essays/Fringe.htm

Quote:

---

This data was gathered from interviews with victims and offenders and from statements. Data only covers robbery/sexual methodology and changes relative to first contact with victim ie., venue/ night/day etc.

---

I'd love to see the original pages if you remember what the url is...


In fact, everyone, not here of course but other sites often 'quote' stats that are made up so always putting down the origin of the 'data' is very useful to a serious person like myself who is not interested in mere talk.

Good work guys,

Thanks for this.

thanks for the stats. very interesting. wonder if it is similar in USA. seems to be.mantis

sorry good people I dont have the origional reference points re statistics as i did this work a long time ago, I am due to review it shortly so will post more accurate references as part of that study.

Please not ein my origonal list ie the first one posted, it has been changed from the statistics to make it more workable in martial arts terms, the second list - male on female is as I found it.

hi guys just joined
hey shoshinkan,
like you work!! cheers!! are there any posts or links to techniques for dealing with these scenarios?

in relation to how to deal with these assaults - well that is your instructors busienss really!

on a moere useful note you will find great simularity of technique deployed from all arts if the assaults are worked in a realistic manner, something to look out for if self defence is a key element of your reasons for training IMO.

What about when they have not touched you yet, though are screaming in your face. What would you do about that, or would you put it in the list. I guess it's right before they do something on the list.

To touch on DefendThyself post.
You should have in place as a part of your training a way to judge distance and where the threat is in your circle of control.
You need to understand if you are in a circle of situational weakness or strength. (how much of a threat does the environment around you hold)
What are your options and understand the sooner you can break the circle of conflict the less the chance of damage or expansion problems.
There are many factors that must be in play before the circle of convergence is draw and a fight begins.
The key is becoming good at seeing the signs of trouble and moving clear. So to answer the question, "what to do if they are screaming in your face". Look around and judge the situation and clam down the mood and walk a way.

I belief the info provided should be titled "Acts of physical violence summary" as violence is not necessarily confined to physical acts.

To answer your question ..... De-escalation

here is an article of mine that was recently featured as a four part series in Blitz Australasian MA magazine (part 4 is in the current issue). it's long but full of great stuff.

De-escaltion: The true art of fighting without fighting

This is a really interesting! Nice work. I am very interested in what are the most common types of attacks, how they happen, where and when etc.

I did three articles a while ago. One focused on the UK, one the US and one Australia. It was broader and dealt with overall stuff that I built on the top of real statistics. I focused on two main areas being Assault and Robbery. The links for the articles are below:

http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2008/12/uk-assault-and-robbery-statistics.html

http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2008/10/us-assault-and-robbery-stats-analysis.html

http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2008/10/what-is-most-likely-attack-on-street.html

Here are the links to some stat download areas for your viewing pleasure. I am not sure if the US ones were the exact links as it has been a while... But there are some good solid stats looking more at places, age groups, if attacker knew victim etc type stuff. Not what technique was used in the attack.

UK stats
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/robbery/index.html

US Stats
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=3

Australian Stats
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4509.0Main+Features1Apr%202005?

Maybe that will be of interest to some of you.

And Drew, your link doesn't work. Good to see you here!

Good stuff! Thanks.

Like wise mate always nice to see another Aussie. PS I like your blog.

Try this link for the article
http://themartialarchive.com/Self-Defenc...t-Fighting.html

Thanks for the kind words about my blog

And still no luck with the link... Tried in firefox and chrome. even tried themartialarchive.com without the other stuff after .com... maybe the site is down.

Hey Adam, the link works fine for me. the site may have been down earlier today, but it's all a goer now.

check your face book friends request, and if you want join my groups page and you can have access to my articles via the discussion page

The link works now! Interesting stuff. Nicely written. The site must have been down earlier.

Here's a nice case study ...

How would you handle this situation?

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2010/10/20/violent-drunk-returns-to-city-pub/