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#237606 - 03/10/06 10:03 AM Simple, Fast, Hard
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Would everyone agree these are 3 main principles of self-defense?

Simple - recallable technique under stress. this includes instictively knowing where to target.

Fast - reaction time prior to allowing panic to set in. (overcomming 'deer in headlights' reaction)

Hard - you might only get one shot, so make each one count.

so, wouldn't it be wise to mostly practice basic techniques going for speed, accuracy and power? some type of impact training is a must. you need to know what it feels like to hit something in order to give feedback to tell you what needs adjusting for maximum power. this is MINIMUM resistive training, in my opinion.

heel palm, elbows, knees and low kicks are essential...if you aren't working these in high repetition, they may not be recallable without thought.

what reminded me of this is seeing a small-frame female BB hit a 100lb bag recently, and the bag hardly moved. She was either afraid to hit it, didn't have the technique to sustain the impact, or simply didn't have a clue how to generate power.
This was at a place that practices air-kata during every class....going thru the movements without any relation to application -not even at the body mechanics level. This was particularly sad since the place mentions 'self-defense' in it's pamphlet. (although, it cleverly words it as '...can be used in self defense situations').

maybe the course of the thread can go of the direction: what would YOU consider bare minimum skills to develop for self-defense?

#237607 - 03/10/06 11:05 AM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Ed_Morris]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I was just reading this book

by marc young, who I think writes very good books. this is sort of a self defensefighting book, with very little discussion of traditional techniques, and very little of the "10 moves that will let anybody kill anybody" type of writting. he basically discusses the fundementals of generating power, of what weapons to use to strike, or where to strike, etc. a very good book in the discussion of exactly the points that you raise.

in terms of your post - I agree completly. I see a lot of black belts who can't generate enough real power to stop somebody, because they aren't being trained that way. but boy, can they do some cool high kicks.

#237608 - 03/10/06 11:56 AM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Ed_Morris]
swseibukan Offline

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Hey Ed,

Iím with you nearly 100% I would add accuracy to the list because simple fast and hard donít cut it if you canít hit the target. We currently spend at least Ĺ hour out of every 2-hour class on impact drills with a partner using hand pads and air shields and or heavy bag. Weíll practice basics hand striking skills and simple combinations derived from kata and kihon with kicks directed knee level or lower with emphasis on accuracy, speed and power. After impact training we will review and refine kata and two man drills. Then weíll take one or two technique from a kata and use them preemptively and defensively (action and reaction) against various attack scenarios.

So in the end we spend about 2/3rds of our time developing simple techniques that draw from a persons natural reflexive actions that can be applied with accuracy, speed and power. Then continually reinforcing those actions through repetition.
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

#237609 - 03/13/06 11:17 AM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Ed_Morris]
Joss Offline

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Ed, simple, hard and fast are completely essential. But they leave out what you do with them so I see that as an over simplification.

I would add one more: proper strategy. I really haven't figured out the right name for it, but it is what you do with your simple, fast and hard.

To my way of thinking all the "sparing" most dojos do is fostering the gut strategy that self defense means circling for an opening, then getting in for a single good shot and getting back out without getting nailed.

Instead (IMO) it should consist of breaking the momentum of the attack, taking the initiative from the attacker, then keeping the initiative while the attacker is neutralized and dropped.

I and others is our small dojo come from previous schools where "sparring" was common and it is AMAZINGLY difficult to rid ourselves of the reflexive "drop back and block" response to the opponent's attack. We are trying to replace that reflex with something like: "close, control and finish". This replaces that "one-count" feeling that you are "done" after one good strike with a persistant continuous attack and usually ends with a throw or sweep.

#237610 - 03/13/06 01:04 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Joss]
Revanus Offline

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 21
Loc: No ( r ) way
I agree 100% with your simple, fast and hard theory Ed! It is incredible important for a martial artist to be able to deliver tecniques (apologise for misspellings) simple, hard and fast and then get out of the attack without a scratch.
If a MA is just flapping his/her hands around, hoping to get a direct hit to the enemy's body, it's just like a regular cat fight, which is not the Martial art way!
Strike the enemy with one punch (with CONTROL), and walk away with style without doing anything more about it. That is what I would prefer in a H-2-H situasion. I guess it is that which separates a martial artist from a fighter; Control.. Not attacking more or less than neccessary.
"Live to win, dare to fall"

#237611 - 03/13/06 02:03 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA

what reminded me of this is seeing a small-frame female BB hit a 100lb bag recently, and the bag hardly moved.

Just to play devil's advocate for a bit here.

A 100lb bag is fairly heavy. Depending on how short the hanging mechanism is, that will also restrict the amount of movement the bag has when struck. I purposely have my bag (100lbs) at home on a short chain so it won't move too much.

So, especially if it is a "small frame" person hitting it, the amount of movement may not be a reliable guage of striking power.

I do think Ed has enough experience to tell the difference, just making a point.

Otherwise I also agree with Ed's post, especially about impact training.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#237612 - 03/13/06 02:35 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
thats true. with a 8-9ft high mount the chain probably hangs down about 2-3 feet. I admit it was a subjective impression....but your right, I know a love tap and a solid hit. they were punching as hard as they could and the bag wasn't even tickled. lol

lets put it this sister (you've 'seen' her ) has zero MA experience and I know from experience she can hit (closed fist) pretty hard...she's a little over 100lbs. A BB Woman of the same size with 5+ years of training should be able to hit harder than someone of the same size that has no MA training. If not, then something is wrong with the training method. IMO. thats all I meant. sure muscle and strength makes a difference, but after 5+ years of MA training, technique should be making up for it.

my only point was that I think technique with impact training (whatever kind: bag, makiwara, impact pad, etc). is the thing that makes the largest difference.

whatever size/age you are, if you are bouncing off a 100lb suspended bag, the strike ain't gonna do squat to an attacker. even a palm strike to chin would be recoverable unless some decent power is behind it.

#237613 - 03/13/06 04:22 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Joss]
Joss Offline

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
After some additional thought, the word I've been groping for above is "final".

I think the essentials of self-defense are: simple, fast, hard and final.

#237614 - 03/13/06 07:22 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Joss]
Lord_Morningstar Offline

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 36
Simple, Hard and Fast is a good philosophy - I collect notes of self-defence where I can, and I'll keep it mind. I'd also add that any self-defence technique should be done with confidence. I've read that half of attackers back off if they think their intended 'victim' is going to put up a decent fight and make the attack not worth their while or too risky.

#237615 - 03/13/06 11:50 PM Re: Simple, Fast, Hard [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Simple - after studying a miriad of techniques eventually most people rely on about 4 or 5 they can do well. This simplifies things.

Fast - Speed,timing,and knowing your distance falls into this category too.Pre-emptive strikes as well.

Hard - Learning to put all of your wieght into the 1/2" diameter you are hitting takes alot of practice,that's what practice is for.

Seems simple enough when you put it like that,but I think it takes a few years to achieve.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

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