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#237443 - 03/12/06 06:56 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Perhaps the confusion arises when we consider wrist grabs as an initiating attack.

However, if we consider the possibility of wrist grabs occuring subsequent to the initial attack, or as a consequential response to an armed attack - i.e. as a reactionary response in order to restrain an armed attacker, then the meaning changes considerably.

If that were the case, then wrist grabs should favor the defender - i.e. as a restraining mechanism preceeding a followup technique - not the attacker.

If so, why then is there such a primary focus on responses to wrist grabs, particularly a double handed wrist grab, from a defensive perspective? Besides, it just seems foolhardy to tie up both hands in a single wrist restraint - for the aggressor.

To me, wrist grabs make more sense within the context of an armed assault, and only from the perspective of the defender, who is attempting to restrain the armed assailant, and perhaps wrest control of the weapon from them. The corollary to this then makes logical sense - i.e. if you are armed, and someone grabs your wrists to restrain you...

But from a self-defense perspective, where you are unarmed, then it doesn't make sense.... or does it?

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#237444 - 03/12/06 08:35 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: eyrie]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
But from a self-defense perspective, where you are unarmed, then it doesn't make sense.... or does it?

I agree with idea of defense while armed against the wrist grab (of course armed I think its different the wrist twril cuts the attached wrist). The unarmed or armed defense against the wrist grab is just a teaching method of covering the what if. Is it a smart move from a veteran fighters prepective maybe not but does it happen while tussling or grappling yes it does. I say it makes a lot of sense better to know then not to know. KISS should always appply.
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#237445 - 03/12/06 09:01 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Neko456]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
can't argue those points. still, a nice swift kick or shin rake loosens up a target nicely...then the wrist grab release is a no-brainer.

I'll make a bet: I get to grab your wrists as tight as I can, you have to escape (without kicking) before I can let go with one hand and land a strike.

winner gets a free biscuit.

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#237446 - 03/12/06 10:34 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Do I get to head butt and break your elbow? One of the technique I was taught after the head butt between the eyes/nose and dip (body shifting) up under his elbow over my shoulder now, you want him to hold tight reverse grabbing to stop him from getting away! Remember Sepia's arm break!!! You don't have to use your legs to lossen his grip a body shift and head butt will do. I bet you can't punch me holding both my wrsit or one, before my head butt stagger you into my arm break. Appropiate weapon at the rigth range. Try it in a real demo, I have, the head butts at that range is there 1st. I want honey and butter with my busicut.


Edited by Neko456 (03/12/06 10:44 PM)

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#237447 - 03/12/06 10:44 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Neko456]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I don't think that would work Neko. I'd see a headbutt coming and rake your shin,then I'd bite your ear off,spit in your eye,knee you in the groin,and throw you off the pedistal we're both standing on.
Go sit down,no biscuits for you.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#237448 - 03/12/06 10:49 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: BrianS]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Thats one of the previlages of being a mod, you can say what you want and make believe. A headbutt at that range is there before the shin rake also. Stop, with the nonsense if you concentrating on grabbing my wrist you are inside shin kicking range and subject to being off balance because you have to lift your leg and grab at the same time. I'll give you a busicut for imagination. I'm out.
_________________________
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#237449 - 03/12/06 10:49 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: eyrie]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Eyrie,
your post reminds me of something that once happened to me:
I was innocently having a conversation with a girl at a restaurant in a town where I was working (she worked in the diner) when a total stranger walked up and sat down across from me. She ran off, and the guy told me that if he ever caught me talking to "his girl" again, he would go get his gun and kill me.

I told him "If you've got to go get your gun , Bud, you're already the loser".

What you say about wrist grabs is absolutely true... most of them occur while struggling with someone. Once they're connected, I never let them turn loose...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#237450 - 03/12/06 11:11 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
neko: so your answer is body-shift and head-butt? ummm...I think Brian just ate your biscuit dude. I was going to award you it anyway for the effort.

fisttwister: You broke the first rule of self-defense...you escalated the situation with tough talk. you could have just as easily been the loser. you are lucky he was bluffing. dumb.

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#237451 - 03/12/06 11:11 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

....
I'll make a bet: I get to grab your wrists as tight as I can, you have to escape (without kicking) before I can let go with one hand and land a strike.

winner gets a free biscuit.




Make it a whole tin of Danish Butter Cookies and you've got yerself a bet.

I'll call, and raise you. No kicking, headbutting or striking from me and I'll bet you'll throw yourself.

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#237452 - 03/12/06 11:23 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Neko456]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Thats one of the previlages of being a mod, you can say what you want and make believe.




I was under the impression that anyone can post what they want,or make believe,see below.

All quotes from Neko456

Quote:

If attacked I can only respond by how I train, thats all I know how to do now. So there is no grab a$$ing or playing around. When I was younger I tried to be just one of the guys, but kicking people against the wall because they goosed ya or slapping their back/spine or grion dropping them to their knees, responding to a belly punch, don't make many friends. You gotta keep it real.





Quote:

Jailed for a driving violation at 20 something in the city jail these three young punks started fronting singles (didn't mess guys that had buddied up), they'd surround and stared trying to intimate. Some guys turned into a corner other just lowered their head, they'd push them and say I'll be back later. I was [censored] because someone had swicht license tags on me, and it was to a stolen vehicle ( I was in a hurry and hadn't looked at my tag).

Anyway they approached and surround me, I was already looking down, I raised my head slowly and made eye contact which each but especially the guy closest and the ring leader. His smile went away, his eyes dimmed, his stare veered away, he said nothing like a deer caught in head lights. Their confidence failed. His buddies grabbed him and pulled away. I stared at them until they took a seat. We had no more problems out of them. Seriously the closest guy (he was just a kid but you order shi%^ .. ) was gonna feel some real pain if he blinked wrong, garranteed.





it gets deeper!

Quote:

As a bouncer, guard or police officer I wasn't really trying to hurt the guys or women but they were and it was very real. A lot of counter, control and detain/arrest sometimes with help sometimes mono. Too many to count.





Quote:

Mono Mono fights/attacks were definitely real even though some only lasted a second or less then a minute. And then the skilled challenges that have taken 3-10 minutes to get any advantage. Or the Gang fights with and without weapons when I was alot younger that took 2-15 minutes, actually combat but seemed to last hours. Muggings and Strong arm robbery attempts for just being in the wrong place.

Or the a$$ kicking I gave the older guys that use to whip me when I was young and untrained, that tried to do it once trained and older. It usually never lasted long. More a conflict then a fight.





Quote:

Testing or proving that my Art worked many, many times actually Mono Mono or Multiple attacks defense 20 or 30 times, probably.

Many more before training I lost a bunch of them and won some, most to older guys some girls, when I was 5-10 yrs old. Girls are stronger then boys at that age, at least thats the excuse I use to tell myself.LOL.

After training having the confidents to walk away or ignore a challenge are some of my biggest victories, many, many times, 1 time it stopped a set up shooting attempt on my life.






Quote:

Thats were Me and U are different in some of the multiple attacks, muggings and strong arm robbery attempts after I dispatched the 1st or 2nd guy that touched me or in range I RLH. Even if they all were on the ground, Usually they didn't try to hard or didn't want to catch me.





Quote:

Trust Me you don't want to get Me angry. Really you don't.





Quote:

I hope no MA would have to carry a knife around and feel that they would have to use it. If you are in martial arts,dont carry a knife! It only shows how unreliable you think your trainig is.





Quote:

I carry a knife but hardly ever think about using it because I have other means of deterants & levels above it as a self defense system.






Quote:

I can't tell you the MAs and just good street fighters that I have seen who have taken on multiple attackers and defeated them or fought them off and survived. I am one of these people did I look goofy doing it I don't know and don't care, but I looked better the 2 or 3 that tried to mug or attack me.




Which was it? Two or three? Were they ninjas?

Quote:

Here we go, Ok I've been in bar/club instances, gang/truff fights out numbered, School hazing were the senior of a the high school beat down the freshmens, I been in bathroom muggings, I've been in bar fights as a bouncer and as a policeman. The bathroom mugging was probably the scariest because the doors shuts behind you and one guy grabs you from behind anothers trying to punuch in the face!! No where to run until you make you a hole. But it was just two guys. Usually there were three or more attackers, in these other incidents.





Quote:

Stop, with the nonsense




I'm just sayin'



Edited by BrianS (03/12/06 11:25 PM)
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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