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#237423 - 03/09/06 10:13 PM Wrist grabs: how common are they?
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
are wrist grabs (while standing) considered a habitual act of violence? or are they even common?

think from an attackers point of view...a single wrist grab gives the defender as much advantage as the attacker, since one hand is still available.

for a double wrist grab, wouldn't even a fake kick to the nuts be enough for an attacker to instictively let go, or at least bend forward off-balancing themselves for an easier escape?

but even before the wrist grab, while the aggresor is reaching out to grab your wrists, they are vulnerable. any person whos trained for a bit, would likely react prior to the person getting a full grip on.

why then are there all of these interpretations/books/articles/etc flying around about escaping from stand-up wrist grabs?

I't would be more impressive to hear how a Woman could escape a double wrist grab while she was on her back, being overpowered by a larger Man....that, to me, would be a much more likely scenario of double wrist grabs.

also as an aside... everytime I see someone interpret bunkai from kata as defense against a wrist grab, I can think of 2 more interpretations for the same movement that are against much more aggressive attacks.

what are your collective thoughts on this from a self-defense perspective...regardless of your Art.

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#237424 - 03/09/06 11:15 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
While most arts practice wrist grabs from the front, the most of them on the street are done from behind. It's one thing to grab a guy's wrist knowing he's going to knock your lights out with his other fist, and grabbing both wrists from behind or grabbing one and spinning the victim into your punch.

While my focus is jujitsu, I try to make it from realistic attacks and not from the "made up attacks" that you find in a lot of schools. I tend to work out things that will work from punches and grips that actually occur "in nature" rather than the classical attacks and wrist grabs from the front. Most of those occurred by trying to stop someone from drawing a sword or sai or the like, and there just aren't many people running around with them in their belts these days.

We do a lot of single and double wrist grips in aikido, but they are used to demonstrate principles more than actually being "street attacks"... but there again, every school has its own methods and focus.

_________________________
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#237425 - 03/09/06 11:42 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I could see a bigger stronger man trying to control a smaller woman possibly for abduction by using wrist grabs.

They would definately let go if someone kicked at them,unless they were just dancing or something.

Quote:

also as an aside... everytime I see someone interpret bunkai from kata as defense against a wrist grab, I can think of 2 more interpretations for the same movement that are against much more aggressive attacks.






Bunkai,IMO,is way too open to the imagination and people come up with an idea and try to fit in their favorite kata,then you just have a silly dance routine that has nothing to do with the kata whatsoever.
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#237426 - 03/09/06 11:43 PM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: wristtwister]
TylerW Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 76
Loc: washington state
I think it all depends.

If neither of the people have MA experience, i doubt it would happen. Either the person trying wouldnt be able to pull it off, grab it correctly, or do anything with it once they get it.

If both or either, then maybe, but people on the street are unpredictable. Only way i see being able to grab a wrist is by complete surprise to the other person.

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#237427 - 03/10/06 02:02 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

are wrist grabs (while standing) considered a habitual act of violence? or are they even common?





in my experience not at all. I have never seen an aggressor grab at their victims wrist(s), I have seen people in the transitional stage from verbal confrontation to being attacked grab at their aggressors wrists to hold them still in an attempt to calm them as they get more animated with agitation. I cant ever remember seeing this end well either.

If someone has the intent to do harm, they will always come in hard with a flurry of strikes of some description or maybe a headlock. The grabbing of a wrist is just not compatable with the goal or mentality of someone wanting to dominate another person physicaly.

If there is a verbal trigger initialy, leading to violence, then the escalation usually presents itself as a hard shove initialy, leading to an immediate retaliation, or just a fast hard flurry of strikes. With a verbal altercation as primary source of conflict, a shove is far more likley as there is not the same strength of intent as involved in a 'full on' out of the blue attack- it needs to be taken up through the gears.

Either way, grabbing the wrist(s) as an act of aggression is very rare.
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#237428 - 03/10/06 08:20 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think you guys are biased....looking at it from a 'professional' point of view. A wrist grab, from my limited personal experience, is used when the aggressor doesn't expect resistance. Used on women and children as a control...a prelude to abduction or further violence.

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#237429 - 03/10/06 09:12 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
point taken. but lets use your example of a much stronger attacker... wouldn't the defender have their greatest chance of escape by kicking really hard? as oppossed to say, some of the escapes some find in kata interpretation?

I did a test with my 80lb 11 year old. He was allowed to do anything to escape from the strongest double wrist grab I could manage....he first tried going against the thumbs, but I held on firm. he eventually resorted to kicking me hard in the shin (he was wearing sneakers) and I instictively let go with a yelp lol. I had a black-and-blue for a couple days.

therefore, as far as I'm concerned, I'd have him practice power generation in shoe-donned toe kicking than any kind of fancy wrist releases.

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#237430 - 03/10/06 09:23 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think that 'you make karate your own'. An interpretation of countering a wrist grab doing an armbar technique presumes either skill or upper body strength...both of which I am sure most women and children lack.

While kicking is smart, again, it depends on the context. Martial arts, with known counters, vs. more 'civilian' events?

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#237431 - 03/10/06 09:38 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Wrist grabs are not common in my experience, but they do happen. I had a guy grab my wrist once, because he thought I was trying to get with his girl. (tee hee, actually I was, but I didn't know she had a boyfriend )

I was able to do the standard small circle escape and apologize. He was clearly not trained, although he was bigger than me.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#237432 - 03/10/06 11:18 AM Re: Wrist grabs: how common are they? [Re: MattJ]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I like wrist grabs, myself - I happen to be short and strong and heavy, with very good hand strength and a very low center of balance. I am also left handed. I find that if I can grab, with my right hand, somebodies right hand when I am sparing, and hold it at my waist hight, or slightly lower, for 3-5 seconds, I basically can keep him off balance and open up his back for a few seconds. If I step on his right foot at the same time, I can usually get him on the ground, as well.

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