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#237414 - 03/09/06 08:44 PM zen IN karate
bobmax Offline

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 26
Loc: toronto,ontario,canada
A technique done perfectly - we all aspire to it.

But what is it? A punch with perfect form? But will it work, will it disable a committed and huge assailant?

A punch that works? But any moron can perform one of those; doesn't the frame of mind of the puncher enter into it? And we almost never punch a live human being, anyway.

What constitutes enlightenment IN a punch, and not just in judgement of the punch. In other words, how do we make our own personal martial art manifest something great and not just pugilistic? How can we be truly happy every day, as we practise?

#237415 - 03/10/06 06:54 PM Re: zen IN karate [Re: bobmax]
Dauragon c mikado Offline

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Perhaps knowing the punch as you know your self, body positioning, power, speed, form, state of mind, pourpous, importance, meaning, emotion, control, all these things and more and youll find the 'punch enlightenment'. Perfect the punch as to perfect yourself, progress with the punch as to progress with yourself, become on with the punch and become one with yourself
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

#237416 - 03/13/06 05:33 AM Re: zen IN karate [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA

I have a suggestion, please the both of you, please ounch yourselves. LoL

Sorry had to say that.

I just came by to read some of the post unfortunetly only 2 of you have posted and sadly I dont really know what your talking about. You two sound almost cryptic, which makes me think that maybe your looking into something to deep making a punch seem more than what it really is. Or what it is intended to be.

I'll come back in a few days hopefully someone will respond to your post with something within my limits. My first comment about punching yourselves was just a joke, I meant to real offense, just a way of introducing myself. I'm TeK I like to kid around, please accept my apologise if I in some way raised your blood pressure, it was not my intent. Just a friendly joke.

"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da

#237417 - 03/13/06 04:09 PM Re: zen IN karate [Re: TeK9]
Dauragon c mikado Offline

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Oh, dont worry.
No offence taken and besides I can make a complicated subject about nearly anything
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

#237418 - 03/14/06 02:33 PM Ngondro [Re: bobmax]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
"If enlightenment is not where you are standing, where will you look?" - Zen Saying


"An instant realization sees endless time.
Endless time is as one moment.
When one comprehends the endless moment
He realizes the person who is seeing it."

'Ngondro' is a set of experiential practices that includes contemplation. Practicing karate can be a form of ngondro, and in that aspect karate can lead to 'enlightenment'.

Then there is the moment one peforms a technique, 'meets oneself', comprehends everything as it is ('the endless moment'), and realizes that it was that way all along.

So, yes and yes.

#237419 - 03/14/06 02:51 PM Re: zen IN karate [Re: bobmax]
founderofryoute1 Offline

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
A friend of mine used to palm strike a makiwara repeatedly as a form of meditation. However, later he told me that the repetitive striking had eventually injured his wrist. But I can vouch for the fact that his striking technique was superb. When he hit that thing it seemed almost supernatural, he was definitely entering a state of very deep meditation. It was shame about the downside.

Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

#237420 - 03/14/06 02:56 PM Re: zen IN karate [Re: founderofryoute1]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I've heard of the idea of moving beyond form...of sitting zen going beyond sitting...of going beyond needing the makiwara?

#237421 - 03/19/06 11:43 AM Re: zen IN karate [Re: harlan]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Just a passing comment... when I studied karate many years ago, we were told to try to approach "mizo no kokoro", the mind of water, and to work so that as we did our karate techniques, that our breathing and movement were still in that framework as we trained.

The "perfect" punch (or technique) mentioned by one of the posters, is like hitting the "sweet spot" on a baseball or golf ball, where everything goes perfectly and is effortless in its mechanical movement. "All things working together", so to speak.

If your mindset is correct, and in a framework as mentioned (mizo no kokoro) then all movement is "moving zen".

What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"


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