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#237396 - 08/28/06 09:50 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: ANDY44]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


If Im reading this correctly then are you suggesting that there should be no difference in emotional state if a person were being attacked than a para medic keeping their cool to carry out his/her duties?





Not so much "keeping your cool", although that may appear to be a result of it. It's more like remaining impassive, almost indifferent, like an assassin doing a "job" with cold, clinical precision, not because it's "just a job", but with the sort of deep unshakable pride and passion (read "love"), of "doing the job" and doing a damn fine job!

Clear as mud?

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#237397 - 08/28/06 10:00 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: eyrie]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
For some people nigh on impossable.Thas a very rare animal.


Nice idea but not very practical, If som eone is treating someone who is injured then thats fine, If someone is under threat then there is flight or fight hormone.

I will pass from, initial flight to fight if I am attacked.
Its called the adrenaln dump

Means a person c###s them selves unless they are naive
and have never been in a hard fight.

I know plenty like that. After the hard fight they learn
almost indifferent?. I think for the assassin part thats only applies in films and books or people who are nutters and belong in jail.

Most people c### themselves regrdless when it concerns violance of any nature. Including attackers when they start to lose. The smell is awfull.




By the way to explain things how I see it here is a poem I wrote/created based on when I was competing full contact karate
i used it to reply to Old man on another thread



My bag is leather, and filled with sand.
With this I train, with feet and hand
And when I fight, all bruised and cut
My hands still broken, my eyes still shut
In common with love, its much the same
when lovers exist, there is also pain.

@Andy






Edited by ANDY44 (08/28/06 10:18 PM)

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#237398 - 08/28/06 10:19 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: eyrie]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

I don't think Sun Tzu was pushing the humanitarian ideal anymore than Ueshiba was talking about the New-Agey connotation of "love", or that the philosophies are identical or even interchangeable or adaptable.




Well said, and what is even more "hidden in plain sight" is that Ueshiba didn't have such an overwhelming focus on the "love of mankind" as disdain for their actions and poor interactions with each other. He did not like "emotional conflicts", and was quite clinical (as are many Japanese teachers), and while allowing such students as Tohei to experiment and vary his teachings, his focus never changed. He wanted his art to create a better world, but not by negotiation...

Altitude adjusts attitude...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#237399 - 08/28/06 10:38 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: ANDY44]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

For some people nigh on impossable.Thas a very rare animal.

Nice idea but not very practical, If som eone is treating someone who is injured then thats fine, If someone is under threat then there is flight or fight hormone.

I will pass from, initial flight to fight if I am attacked.
Its called the adrenaln dump





It doesn't have to be a fight. Just ask any nurse or doctor that spent any time in ER.... or any of the returned veterans... A large of what we train in (whether it is martial or spiritual enlightenment) is learning to override the body's normal autonomous functions.

Quote:

I think for the assassin part thats only applies in films and books or people who are nutters and belong in jail.

Most people c### themselves regrdless when it concerns violance of any nature. Including attackers when they start to lose. The smell is awfull.





Yeah, I c###d myself watching a snuff film. I think you missed the point. It's not about fighting, even though it may appear to be on the surface - omote/ura, soto/uchi....

I can touch hands with someone and know whether I pwn them or they pwn me. Once you can do that, there is no need to fight...

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#237400 - 08/28/06 10:52 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: eyrie]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
In the kind of job I do the idiots fight.So I have to remove them.
Regards the veterens some top them selves years later, or refuse to talk about their experiences.

Would be a nice world with out violance but its there so I think it has to be dealt with accordingly

I still dont think under those circumstances the bodies natural rections can be over ridden when threatend.

People say it can but I have yet to see it.

But just my view



What is a snuff film?. Is that the stuff they inhale?
Not my scene

Thanks



Edited by ANDY44 (08/28/06 10:56 PM)

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#237401 - 08/28/06 11:01 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: ANDY44]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
All I can say is "more training"...


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#237402 - 08/28/06 11:10 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: eyrie]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
I can touch hands with someone and know whether I pwn them or they pwn me. Once you can do that, there is no need to fight...

Is that own me?dont get the pwn part

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#237403 - 08/28/06 11:31 PM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: eyrie]
kunin Offline
hard-boiled aggression

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 73
Loc: - cloud-hidden in the big city
Quote:

I think it's important to note that the work entitled "The Art of War" had several authors - presumably for different sections, but was attributed to Sun Tzu, presumably as a result of compilation/editing such a work, and hence self-entitled as "Sun Tzu's Treatise on Military Methods" (Sun Zi Bing Fa).



That's likely true, as also appears to be the case for the Tao Te Ching of "Lao-tzu." Yet, for convenience as much as anything, we tend to refer to the collective as though it were a single personality, which was what I was doing.

Quote:

Ueshiba didn't just talk about kami no musubi, a lot of his sayings also revolved around warriors fighting evil and "enemies". In typical traditionalist fashion, Ueshiba was using esoteric references and language to point at what he meant. Some of it points specifically at training methods (or at least a round-a-bout way of saying to those in the know, that he "knew"), others are pointers to mental and spiritual attitudes, and mostly indications of a roadmap to the "summit" for those who would follow "the Path".



Your point is well-taken and is something for me to keep in mind as I read translations of his doka and lectures. I also tend to agree that Sun Tzu and Ueshiba-sensei--

Quote:

... are both talking about the same thing - that the conduct of war and warriorship (Ueshiba's interpretation of budo) are based on the same principles and ideals, that of "nature" (the Dao) and being in accordance with the "divine will".




I just hope that I'm not being jacketed as a New Ager here-- --not that anyone's been outrightly accusing me of that. It's actually kind of an insult where I come from, especially in view of the fact that the whole consumerist New Age movement has appropriated all kinds of traditions to itself, watering them down to promote an ethos of social and cultural entitlement couched in a lot of touchie-feelie BS. I could go into a long polemic about it, but I don't consider these forums to be the place for it.
_________________________
'If you have an honest mind, everywhere is a dojo.' Nicole

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#237404 - 08/29/06 02:10 AM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: kunin]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


I just hope that I'm not being jacketed as a New Ager here-- --not that anyone's been outrightly accusing me of that. It's actually kind of an insult where I come from, especially in view of the fact that the whole consumerist New Age movement has appropriated all kinds of traditions to itself, watering them down to promote an ethos of social and cultural entitlement couched in a lot of touchie-feelie BS. I could go into a long polemic about it, but I don't consider these forums to be the place for it.




Looking at your forum title... I would say nah, no way ANYONE could EVER get confused....

BTW, it's always a pleasure for me to read what you post.

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#237405 - 08/29/06 02:13 AM Re: Real techniques versus dojo techniques [Re: ANDY44]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

I can touch hands with someone and know whether I pwn them or they pwn me. Once you can do that, there is no need to fight...

Is that own me?dont get the pwn part




Yes, sorry... OWN.... not to suggest I own u.... and a snuff film is NOT stuff you inhale....

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