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#235818 - 03/03/06 04:33 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: TwistingKick]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
conditioning by banging away at your bones is a bad idea, it can lead to all sorts of bad things, right up to bone cancer.

Martial arts "traditionally" is about health and wellness, conditioning is about showing everyone how tough you are at the expense of that.
_________________________

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#235819 - 03/03/06 04:52 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: TwistingKick]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Heh. And here I was thinking it was the SAME thread!

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#235820 - 03/03/06 11:43 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: Taison]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
The reason I started conditioning is because the first ring fight I was in I realized what a asset it is. I fought in the ring for five years. I hardly find spending ten minutes a day on conditioning a waste of time. I think people spend more time on their computers a day conditioning their fingertips than I do my shins/forearms.
I do conditioning to give out hits just as much as being able to take them. It has nothing to do with one trying to act "tough" it gives you that extra element in your ability.
Taison, nobody said it was body armour that would stop anything and the sidekick to the knee is highly overrated. When we would fight the Thais they loved to try and kick your knees out. Master Kak(Now lives in Michigan, USA) formally from Thailand and a Thai champ himself would bring his fighters down to our bouts. So I know what a benefit conditioning is.

Kevin

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#235821 - 03/04/06 04:16 AM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: AndrewGreen]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This is not an excuse but the reason why I wrote like that. . . Is so that you people would flame me and so that I could see all kinds of reason why to condition. If I wrote "Conditioning is essential and should be done everyday", all you guys would write would be "Agree" or "Ok" and this discussion would die it in 4 posts. Now, look at what type of assembly I have done by disagreeing with condition

Anyway, AndrewGreen had a good point though, bone-cancer may be caused from conditioning, but still conditioning should be done but not to an extreme.

It's funny how emotional you guys can get when a Mod disagrees with some training technique. Anyway, keep on the post. I wanna see more reasons.

The thing about busting your knees with a side-kick. You don't believe me? Well, stand still with your legs straight. Now let your friend side-kick your knee with full force. I wonder if any conditioning can stand that. Happened to me once, and trust me, I couldn't stand for a while.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#235822 - 03/04/06 07:27 AM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: Taison]
Drag'n Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:


The thing about busting your knees with a side-kick. You don't believe me? Well, stand still with your legs straight. Now let your friend side-kick your knee with full force. I wonder if any conditioning can stand that. Happened to me once, and trust me, I couldn't stand for a while.

-Taison out




Sure if you stand there rigid, most techs will do extreme damage. If you stand there face on and I hit you with a straight right, I garuntee you'll go down! But a fight is dynamic. Every small action invokes a reaction in your opponent. Thats why its so hard to KO someone with skill. And its also why so called deadly techs aren't all their made out to be.
Thats why we do our best to condition those body parts we need for attack and defence and learn how to protect those parts which we cant condition.
Traditionally thats always been a part of MA training.
Still you also have to think about the long term effects of your training and not go overboard. For some people conditioning can turn into an ego thing.
For those of us who compete in full contact its just a necessarry part of our training. Try using shin blocks or kicks without conditioned shins , and no pads, and you'll realise the importance of conditioning very quickly!
Kicking the heavy bag is the best form of conditioning. You can kick it with the intention of conditioning by using different parts of the shin. Rotating the shin slightly up or down to get the entire surface. Because in a fight you dont always make contact with the part you intended . Your whole shin has to be strong.
I also hit the bag without gloves or bandages sometimes to strengthen my wrists and knuckles. Boxers have been known to break their wrists when punching in a street fight because their wrists werent strong enough to support the power of their punches.
_________________________
You fight like you train

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#235823 - 03/04/06 01:50 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: Taison]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Dude, I believe you. I've been on the receiving end of that one before I started MA. Took it from someone who had like a week and a half of TKD. If that hurt as bad as it did, I don't even wanna know what a MT ringfighter could do. The advantage though is that sidekicks are incredibly hard to land on an experienced fighter. I usually only use them as a diversionary tactic - throw one and then follow up with a switch to a roundhouse or hook. When a sidekick comes, just don't be there. Move, use footwork or at the very least, take it square in the chest and trap the leg. But back to shins - has anyone ever been told when shin blocking to keep your toes pointed up? I tried this yesterday and found that the pain wasn't as bad (granted i didn't go near full force).

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#235824 - 03/04/06 05:44 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: Taison]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S

Taison wrote:
"The thing about busting your knees with a side-kick. You don't believe me? Well, stand still with your legs straight. Now let your friend side-kick your knee with full force. I wonder if any conditioning can stand that. Happened to me once, and trust me, I couldn't stand for a while."

All things would work if your opponent just stood there and let you do whatever you wanted.

Kevin

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#235825 - 03/04/06 10:28 PM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: pathfinder7195]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Well, my point is that conditioning is like an armor right? So if I stood still and someone hit me with a, say, Thai low kick on the shin. My shins could stand the punishment, but if he then throws a sidekick on my knee, bye bye dear knee.

Quote:

All things would work if your opponent just stood there and let you do whatever you wanted.


In psychology, that's called "begging-the-question". You're trying to argue by using an unvalid reason. I said conditioning only works to a certain degree, if you use a particular technique it wouldn't help. The statement you use to argue is "Any technique would work if opponent stood still". Wrong argument point.

Ok, try it in randori. I wonder if 5 years of conditioning would help against a sidekick against the knee. Or if conditioned forearms can stand a kick to the elbow.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#235826 - 03/05/06 12:25 AM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: Taison]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Probably just like how conditioned eyeballs withstand an eye gouge

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#235827 - 03/05/06 06:08 AM Re: Why do you condition you shins/forearms? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Exactly.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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