FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 44 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111, BUJU, Pilsungkarate
22931 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
simonajones111 1
ergees 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
Yesterday at 07:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
Yesterday at 07:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
Forum Stats
22931 Members
36 Forums
35588 Topics
432519 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#234786 - 02/27/06 05:24 PM Young and confused ryukyu kempo student
Empishu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Everyones hometown, pa
First post..lets begin.

First off I started martial arts when I was 13 at my dojo and didn't know or care about any of this. It was not till recently did I actually research the art I was apart of. Ryukyu Kempo is a very debated and contriversal art. Why?
Seiyu Oyata and George Dillman
Thats why.
They both have extremely different styles, different curriculum, different ideas, different way of instruction, and different concepts.
My Sensei, Rokudan Jonathan Shapero was once affliated with George Dillman AND Taika Oyata. Now? He's now with neither.
This kind of presents a problem.
I did not know about any of this until after I started actually researching my own art. Not that I was kept ignorant of this or anything, however I was merely not aware.
We HAD a Dillmanesque curriculum, but its now extremely nerfed (no takiyoku's anymore, no sparring, no tuite, no pressure point fighting)
Most of which had been taken out before I even reached 5th kyu.
I've heard good and bad about both masters. I've heard Dillman is full of it because he believes he can knock someone out with a 'chi' ball. I heard Oyata's impractical, and is close minded to other styles. I've heard alot of good to. However I really hate neutrality and not learning neither system.

I'm in Pennsylvannia, Dillman country, most of Oyata's dojos are in the midwest. I'd like to learn his style, however a seminar has been brought to my attention soon featuring Dillman and Leon Jay. I'm unsure whether to go or not, however I know if I go I can have an answer to whether Dillman is truely valid. However I'm at a point right now where I don't know which to choose, or whether just throwing out the style with the kitchen sink and going to a completely different art.

One thing clear I'm not trying to start a Dillman VS Oyata flame war. Far from it. However I really...really would like opinion/suggestions/truthes.

Thank you.
_________________________
"Keep the fight" Amor Kaicho "we are all karateka" Taika Oyata

Top
#234787 - 02/27/06 06:37 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Empi

What do YOU think????

What was YOUR training like, do you trust it or not?

Asking other people for their opinion is well and good, but the bottom line is that YOUR the guy/gal that there in the ground and "my" opinion on any given subject should not really matter.

Personally I find Dillman to be a hack, other people disagree.

And weither or not Oyata, is "closed minded other styles" is equally irrlevent.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#234788 - 02/27/06 06:39 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
My suggestion. If its just a seminar what have you got to lose if you go see it? It`s always best if you go see things for yourself. It doesn`t mean that you`re choosing a style by just going to a seminar.
And I hear that Leon Jay is great, if nothing else, going just to see him might be worth it.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

Top
#234789 - 02/27/06 06:47 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Hi Empishu! Welcome to the forums!

I personally think Dillman was a very good martial artist until he bought into his own fame. The no touch thing is crap and everybody knows it. His pp applications are for real though.
I would go to the seminar and see what you think for yourself,then switch to TKD,just kidding.
Just have fun in what ever you do.if it isn't fun anymore,do something else.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#234790 - 02/27/06 08:02 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: BrianS]
Empishu Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Everyones hometown, pa
I spoke to my sensei about this and he said Dillman was a ranking old man and he didn't like either Oyata or Dillman. Kinda sad. He did praise Dillmans kata interpritation, but siad other wise it wouldn't be worth it. YEs I know I need to decide for myself but I'm 18 ...alot of people on this board have been involved in martial arts long then I've lived.
_________________________
"Keep the fight" Amor Kaicho "we are all karateka" Taika Oyata

Top
#234791 - 02/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
So you've been practicing five years? That should be long enough to make an informed decision depending on what you're looking for in a martial art. Now all you need is experience.

My suggestion would be to go and take a few classes at as many schools as you can find. Most should give you at least one free class just to see what it's like there.

Spar someone from these schools if you can to get an idea of what they're going for stylistically and how effective it is. Stay safe and make sure you know what the rules are beforehand. As a general rule never let anyone hit you in the head with any real force.

Top
#234792 - 07/27/07 05:58 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
GIMark Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Ft. Lewis, WA
Go, the worst that can happen is you can learn what not to do. The best is you might pick up some things that you do not know. Just research everything before you believe it.

Oyata Sensei is among the best Martial Artists alive and is not close minded to other styles, just believes his is the best. Like most others do. His knowledge and skills blows 99.9% of the other Karate masters away in my opinion. No, I do not study his system of Karate.

Top
#234793 - 07/27/07 09:42 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Empi I suggest that you go to the seminar with Master Dillman see 1st hand what his system is about, what you will see is a firm understand of merdian strikes. He can knock you out striking just the arm and leg. Or the head lightly he can revieve you with a back rub. Before he got so metophysical/strange he had a very good reputation. The once respected Dillman is looked upon as a Quack, his basic Karate is not.

Master Oyata is old school Karate is pretty much the same but its taught differently he may of may not believe in the metophyiscal and onlys his closest seniors know this, most chi experts are out there. As for his style dominance I don't know many people good at their Karate or head of their art thats not. This is not only your dojo, at the top most schools theres some style superiority and weird offering like drinking whiskey thats been cured by a venomous snake. So you see, believing in control Chi like a electrical whip is not that werid.

Study in the style that works for you. Don't get into the dojo politics until they ask you to. Then say you got honey dos, to do for your wife or girlfriend.


Edited by Neko456 (07/27/07 09:46 AM)

Top
#234794 - 07/27/07 10:00 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Empishu,

First off you train with your instructor, not your style head. You might see them in clinics or on special occassions, but it is your instructor who is the core of your art.

So if you have concerns about what your instructor is teaching you have an obligation to decide to continue or look elsewhere.

As far as Mr. Dillman and/or Mr. Oyata, they have those who like and have issues with their teachings. In Pennsylvania there are many qualified Okinawan stylists in many styles that may be in your area.

If you can share your rough location I might have some suggestions to consider, I'm originally from Penna and spent 10 years living in Scranton before moving to NH.

No style does everything, and there are many instructors teaching good arts, abet differently.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#234795 - 07/27/07 10:08 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Victor brought up a good point about not training with those masters, so I'll withhold my opinions of them. However, any karate school that doesn't spar is, IMHO, crap.
_________________________

Top
#234796 - 07/27/07 10:21 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Ironfoot]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Ironfoot,

Hmmmmm, I believe I have to disagree with you. The best kumite fighter I've seen never uses sparring in his training program. He uses other tools, such as two person sets of great complexity, to take their place.

In the years when we were all younger he would go through anyone, even people twice his size like a hot knife through butter.

Sparring has it's place in training, but it also has it's weaknesses. It is a balancing act to use it to the best advantage.

My friend's ability was to use technique combinations, offensive and defensive with speed that sparring trained karate-ka were unable to deal with.

I find there is not one answer and in turn I choose to use sparring where appropriate in any karate-ka's career.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#234797 - 07/27/07 10:31 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Ironfoot]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Ironfoot:

Emotionally I certainly agree with your view re: no sparring. However, what about those who train ONLY applications...? What of them I wonder? Grab, attack me and I respond via itty bitty kata pieces & the principles thereof. You/they keep coming, I keep defending...?

Would this cancel out your basic objection?

Jeff

Top
#234798 - 07/27/07 12:20 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: GIMark]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Guys,

Dragging up old posts is all well and good if you have something to contribute.

This guy has not been on the forums in a while and if he was going to the seminar he ALREADY WENT.

Read the post date and take all the information in next time please.

I know, I'm anal.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#234799 - 07/27/07 12:25 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sorry Brian. But the way I look at it...if it's not closed then it's open for business.

Besides, Empishu has been around and contributing. Maybe this thread will catch his eye, and he'll give an update.

Top
#234800 - 07/27/07 12:48 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
UM Sure. Does every thread need to be locked so it can make sense later?

Post date

Quote:

2/27/06




1 year and five months ago.



Quote:

I'm in Pennsylvannia, Dillman country, most of Oyata's dojos are in the midwest. I'd like to learn his style, however a seminar has been brought to my attention soon featuring Dillman and Leon Jay. I'm unsure whether to go or not...




post today

Quote:

Go, the worst that can happen is you can learn what not to do. The best is you might pick up some things that you do not know.





Makes sense to me.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#234801 - 07/27/07 12:51 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yes. Call it a pet peeve of mine as well...I've asked the mods in the past to consider locking all threads after a certain time. Especially after the server move, and there were all those truncated threads.

Quote:

UM Sure. Does every thread need to be locked so it can make sense later?



Top
#234802 - 07/27/07 12:54 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: harlan]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Some threads are worth leaving alone for others(new members etc) to read and respond to or debate. Other threads do become moot though.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#234803 - 07/27/07 09:34 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
My sensei once had his class go through block and counter drills to the exclusion of sparring for months before a tournament, and they tore up the sparring division.

However, if you never spar, it's like book knowledge; in theory, it should work. There are a lot of PHYSCHOLOGICAL reasons to spar. Get used to getting hit. Figure out your opponent. Improve your footwork and combinations. Etc, etc.
_________________________

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga