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#234786 - 02/27/06 05:24 PM Young and confused ryukyu kempo student
Empishu Offline

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Everyones hometown, pa
First post..lets begin.

First off I started martial arts when I was 13 at my dojo and didn't know or care about any of this. It was not till recently did I actually research the art I was apart of. Ryukyu Kempo is a very debated and contriversal art. Why?
Seiyu Oyata and George Dillman
Thats why.
They both have extremely different styles, different curriculum, different ideas, different way of instruction, and different concepts.
My Sensei, Rokudan Jonathan Shapero was once affliated with George Dillman AND Taika Oyata. Now? He's now with neither.
This kind of presents a problem.
I did not know about any of this until after I started actually researching my own art. Not that I was kept ignorant of this or anything, however I was merely not aware.
We HAD a Dillmanesque curriculum, but its now extremely nerfed (no takiyoku's anymore, no sparring, no tuite, no pressure point fighting)
Most of which had been taken out before I even reached 5th kyu.
I've heard good and bad about both masters. I've heard Dillman is full of it because he believes he can knock someone out with a 'chi' ball. I heard Oyata's impractical, and is close minded to other styles. I've heard alot of good to. However I really hate neutrality and not learning neither system.

I'm in Pennsylvannia, Dillman country, most of Oyata's dojos are in the midwest. I'd like to learn his style, however a seminar has been brought to my attention soon featuring Dillman and Leon Jay. I'm unsure whether to go or not, however I know if I go I can have an answer to whether Dillman is truely valid. However I'm at a point right now where I don't know which to choose, or whether just throwing out the style with the kitchen sink and going to a completely different art.

One thing clear I'm not trying to start a Dillman VS Oyata flame war. Far from it. However I really...really would like opinion/suggestions/truthes.

Thank you.
"Keep the fight" Amor Kaicho "we are all karateka" Taika Oyata

#234787 - 02/27/06 06:37 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5844
Loc: USA

What do YOU think????

What was YOUR training like, do you trust it or not?

Asking other people for their opinion is well and good, but the bottom line is that YOUR the guy/gal that there in the ground and "my" opinion on any given subject should not really matter.

Personally I find Dillman to be a hack, other people disagree.

And weither or not Oyata, is "closed minded other styles" is equally irrlevent.
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

#234788 - 02/27/06 06:39 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Kosh Offline

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
My suggestion. If its just a seminar what have you got to lose if you go see it? It`s always best if you go see things for yourself. It doesn`t mean that you`re choosing a style by just going to a seminar.
And I hear that Leon Jay is great, if nothing else, going just to see him might be worth it.
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

#234789 - 02/27/06 06:47 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Hi Empishu! Welcome to the forums!

I personally think Dillman was a very good martial artist until he bought into his own fame. The no touch thing is crap and everybody knows it. His pp applications are for real though.
I would go to the seminar and see what you think for yourself,then switch to TKD,just kidding.
Just have fun in what ever you do.if it isn't fun anymore,do something else.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#234790 - 02/27/06 08:02 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: BrianS]
Empishu Offline

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Everyones hometown, pa
I spoke to my sensei about this and he said Dillman was a ranking old man and he didn't like either Oyata or Dillman. Kinda sad. He did praise Dillmans kata interpritation, but siad other wise it wouldn't be worth it. YEs I know I need to decide for myself but I'm 18 ...alot of people on this board have been involved in martial arts long then I've lived.
"Keep the fight" Amor Kaicho "we are all karateka" Taika Oyata

#234791 - 02/27/06 10:42 PM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Subedei Offline

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
So you've been practicing five years? That should be long enough to make an informed decision depending on what you're looking for in a martial art. Now all you need is experience.

My suggestion would be to go and take a few classes at as many schools as you can find. Most should give you at least one free class just to see what it's like there.

Spar someone from these schools if you can to get an idea of what they're going for stylistically and how effective it is. Stay safe and make sure you know what the rules are beforehand. As a general rule never let anyone hit you in the head with any real force.

#234792 - 07/27/07 05:58 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
GIMark Offline

Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Ft. Lewis, WA
Go, the worst that can happen is you can learn what not to do. The best is you might pick up some things that you do not know. Just research everything before you believe it.

Oyata Sensei is among the best Martial Artists alive and is not close minded to other styles, just believes his is the best. Like most others do. His knowledge and skills blows 99.9% of the other Karate masters away in my opinion. No, I do not study his system of Karate.

#234793 - 07/27/07 09:42 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Empi I suggest that you go to the seminar with Master Dillman see 1st hand what his system is about, what you will see is a firm understand of merdian strikes. He can knock you out striking just the arm and leg. Or the head lightly he can revieve you with a back rub. Before he got so metophysical/strange he had a very good reputation. The once respected Dillman is looked upon as a Quack, his basic Karate is not.

Master Oyata is old school Karate is pretty much the same but its taught differently he may of may not believe in the metophyiscal and onlys his closest seniors know this, most chi experts are out there. As for his style dominance I don't know many people good at their Karate or head of their art thats not. This is not only your dojo, at the top most schools theres some style superiority and weird offering like drinking whiskey thats been cured by a venomous snake. So you see, believing in control Chi like a electrical whip is not that werid.

Study in the style that works for you. Don't get into the dojo politics until they ask you to. Then say you got honey dos, to do for your wife or girlfriend.

Edited by Neko456 (07/27/07 09:46 AM)

#234794 - 07/27/07 10:00 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Empishu]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

First off you train with your instructor, not your style head. You might see them in clinics or on special occassions, but it is your instructor who is the core of your art.

So if you have concerns about what your instructor is teaching you have an obligation to decide to continue or look elsewhere.

As far as Mr. Dillman and/or Mr. Oyata, they have those who like and have issues with their teachings. In Pennsylvania there are many qualified Okinawan stylists in many styles that may be in your area.

If you can share your rough location I might have some suggestions to consider, I'm originally from Penna and spent 10 years living in Scranton before moving to NH.

No style does everything, and there are many instructors teaching good arts, abet differently.
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#234795 - 07/27/07 10:08 AM Re: Young and confused ryukyu kempo student [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Victor brought up a good point about not training with those masters, so I'll withhold my opinions of them. However, any karate school that doesn't spar is, IMHO, crap.

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