FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 33 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Troy7785, wakita, swisztony, Tonybb, shelly1993
22920 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 3
Matakiant 3
AndyLA 3
Zombie Zero 1
Marcus Charles 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Victor Smith
09/28/14 07:11 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
Forum Stats
22920 Members
36 Forums
35579 Topics
432500 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#234344 - 02/26/06 07:12 PM Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed.
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I've had some trouble with some of the knife anf pistol disarms. When doing the knife techniques individaully I usaully use the techniques effectively but when I have my partner attack me randomly at will it's extremly difficult to actually applly the technieus. The attacks are to short, fast and unpreditable so I just cant seem to make them work, or vary rarely at best. Also many of the knife disarms result in getting slashed across the wrist and forearms.(not really, i dont train with real knives or anything). I think for the former it's just a matter of more training and experience, and better reflexes but what about the latter.
Now with the pistol disarms, I have a problem with disarms from the rear, I they either pull the "Pistol away" and fake shoot me, or shoot me right off because i'm too slow. What is everyones experiences with this?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#234345 - 02/26/06 07:58 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Stormdragon]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Are these skills new for you? Honestly you need to practice these disarms a number of times. I demonstrated both the gun and knife disarms today at the get together. I am no means as good as my instructors..remember the element of surprise will be with you in reality. Regular Mr. Robber is not going to expect someone with your skills. Keep up with the practice. Pick up a rubber knife and gun..and practice at home like I do. My GF and son pull knives and guns on me all the time...it is becoming second nature. It will come to you...trust me..it will. Just practice...practice..practice..

Ask your instructor for additional one on one training if needed.

A year ago when I saw and tried these disarms for the first time...my instructor told me I would not only learn them...I would devistate my attacker..I thought he was

One year later and I am fast and brutal with em...and I am a 50 year old slow old man..
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

Top
#234346 - 02/26/06 08:30 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Stormdragon]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Ranger is 100% right. You need to work hard towards becoming comfortable and confident with these techniques. However, I'm going to have to do a little naysaying here
I have been spending a lot of time training in knife techniques lately, and although I think KM's gun disarms are probably the most sound in all MA right now, I see huge gaping holes in the knife methods - mainly because of what you're talking about. Knives can suddenly change directions, come at you from fast and frenzied angles you didn't see and open up arteries that will take the fight right out of you in one swipe. I think the KM knife system covers how to deal with the attacker in an effective way, but it doesn't teach enough about the knife itself. In order to understand knife attacks, practice doing them to someone else. If you can, get some basic knife fighting techniques and really attack like you mean it. After counting how many times you contact your partner, you'll see what you're up against.
I personally prefer the techniques in the Filipino martial arts because you learn more about the dynamics of knife fighting and defense. They teach you things like which tendons when severed will cause loss of motor skills or which will bleed like an oil tanker on a reef. You learn how to neutralize an attacker's muscles so you can peel the knife away with ease, whereas Krav will show you how to block and counter strike, but leaves the peel more or less up to you. Above all, you learn how much can go wrong.
The bottom line though, is that knowing any defense against a weapon attack is better than nothing, so keep it up no matter how you do it.

Top
#234347 - 02/27/06 04:31 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
You also need to keep in mind what is actually dangerous about a knife when fighting against it. And what is that? It's point! The edge really isn't terribly dangerous to you unless he's putting a lot of weight and arc behind his cuts, in which case disarming should be easy.

Those short little flicking cuts people are so fond of may not even break the skin and certainly wont cut through any but the thinest of clothing. If you are cut then so what? As long as a major artery isn't damage you're perfectly fine!

My suggestion is this: Get a bunch of old clothes and strap them to something firm but with a bit of give. Go at it with a sharp knife! See what cuts and what doesn't, how deep it cuts into the material etc. Learn what you need to do in order to actually hurt someone (not just cut them, HURT them!). It's surprising just how ineffective many knife attacks can be. Stabs are pretty much always effective, however. Be wary of the point!

Top
#234348 - 02/27/06 05:50 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
I do understand where you are coming from, but like I was saying this weekend, most folks training in Defense Arts lack FINE motor skills...so the training starts with GROSS motor skill defenses. A person can alway learn the other defenses later that rely on the fine motor skills..it just easier and faster to start with the ones using the gross motor skills... Does that make sense??
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

Top
#234349 - 02/27/06 06:08 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Subedei]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Subedei -

I hear what you're saying, but I have to disagree. Knife attacks are VERY effective. You have a high intimidation factor, a high probability of serious injury and about a million X factors. And don't underestimate the edge of the blade. In fact, the edge is what's going to be most likely cutiing across your arms - the arteries on top, when cut, will cause you to lose the ability to straighten out your fingers. If the inside ones are cut, you cannot make a fist or hold a weapon. Slashes are also particularly effective on the head, thighs, clavicles and jugular.

Ranger - Yes, completely agreed. My point though, was that I don't see enough thinking going on regarding the X factors. I guess that's why Krav is great to me though. If something doesn't work, you can build on it. I saw a lack of practicality in the knife system, so I integrated (or should say am integrating) knife techniques from the Filipino systems. I will admit that many of these techniques are outside of the range of gross motor skills, and I hadn't really thought about that. But I also like knife tapping just for the sake of doing it, and I think in a life or death situation, it would definitely give me an edge
You get the point

Puns = ...sorry

Top
#234350 - 02/27/06 07:00 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Thanks for your replies everyone, I'll take it all into consideration. Right now I have to train alone a lot of the time because of lack of time, money, etc. so I cant really train at the dojang until april i think so for now I'm just doing what I can. For a beginner to weapon defenses I guess I'm actually doing pretty well, also for training on my own most of the time, I dont have complete failure in live training with weapons, just most of the time. I tend to expect too much too quick, I'm really hard on myself with that, so your're all right about constant practice, and I'm gonna try to incorporate scenarios into my training. It'll just take time and long training.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#234351 - 02/28/06 09:19 AM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Stormdragon]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
When we train at weapons it is hard to get the disarm and the defense when your attacker is going at you over and over again. To put a touch of reality into it you have to take it one step further. Try this, the attacker gets a knife/gun. You, the victim, gets one boxing glove on your right hand. When the attacker attacks, you get to defend and punch them in the face. Trust me it changes every thing. In every situation we have done, 9 times out of 10 the attacker forgets he even has a weapon in his hand. That makes the technique a little easier for the victim. If you want to make it even more interesting, do the same as above but also let the attacker wear a boxing glove on his left hand. It's loads of fun and puts things in perspective. Keep at it!
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

Top
#234352 - 02/28/06 03:22 PM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Subedei]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
Quote:

You also need to keep in mind what is actually dangerous about a knife when fighting against it. And what is that? It's point! The edge really isn't terribly dangerous to you unless he's putting a lot of weight and arc behind his cuts, in which case disarming should be easy.

Those short little flicking cuts people are so fond of may not even break the skin and certainly wont cut through any but the thinest of clothing. If you are cut then so what? As long as a major artery isn't damage you're perfectly fine!

My suggestion is this: Get a bunch of old clothes and strap them to something firm but with a bit of give. Go at it with a sharp knife! See what cuts and what doesn't, how deep it cuts into the material etc. Learn what you need to do in order to actually hurt someone (not just cut them, HURT them!). It's surprising just how ineffective many knife attacks can be. Stabs are pretty much always effective, however. Be wary of the point!




S,

sorry, I think that you are perhaps intellectually correct here, but the problem with the edge is that getting slashed hurts like hell and bleeds. and when that happens 2 or 3 times, you are pretty much out of the fight and can be finished off.

remember, the terrorists in 911 were using knives that basically had 3 or 4 inches of edge, and pretty much no point.


by the way - I don't know if anybody knows this - one of the first people killed on 911, daniel lewin, was an ex-israeli reconosance vetran, and probrobly had a 6-12 week course in krav. he, apperently, had his throat slashed when he tried to stop an attack while sitting in the front of the plane.

Top
#234353 - 03/03/06 09:26 AM Re: Weapon disarm trouble, advice needed. [Re: Stormdragon]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Wear a white Gi, have a Uke attack you with a red washable marker, your going to be surprised what your uniform is going to look like after the attack. Your right there is a big difference between what they call static and active self defense training. It's fine to have someone show you a technique but you need to practice it both ways to truly understand how it can be used during a real life situation.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, JasonM, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga