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#234257 - 02/26/06 02:37 PM offensive ma to go with JJJ
JU_JIT_AL Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 6
hi all

i have recently taken up jjj and really enjoy it . but i would also like to take up a second more offensive ma to go with it.
ideally i would like to do something that will compliment my jjj well so i could use both styles in any given situation with little hesitation
i was thinking muay thai ???
any suggestion

thanx al

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#234258 - 02/26/06 02:39 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: JU_JIT_AL]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Taekwondo, Karate, etc. The Instructor and what is taught is the most important thing and not necessarily the art itself.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#234259 - 02/26/06 09:17 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: Dereck]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
JJJ isn't offensive? I'm sure you can be offensive with it if you want to.
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#234260 - 02/26/06 10:24 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: JU_JIT_AL]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I am thinking that if you are looking to integrate something with Muay Thai, it would Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, not Traditional JJJ.

Traditional Jiu Jitsu training is about as far from kick boxing as you can get.
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#234261 - 02/27/06 06:30 AM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: Fletch1]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
JJJ is fine for offense, just hit, grab punch or whatever you want. I don't know of any jujutsu style that is limited only to pure defensive action.

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#234262 - 03/03/06 04:38 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: paradoxbox]
Lord_Morningstar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 36
I imagine the question is more for a striking art to go with JJJ. Muay Thai or Kickboxing are the the usual choices, although by all means keep an eye out for good Taekwondo, Karate or Kungfu schools. As we always say here, it's less the art than how it's taught.

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#234263 - 03/03/06 04:54 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: JU_JIT_AL]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Try Kempo.
A lot of JJ schools advertise themselves as KempoJujutsu and they do seem to work a lot of the same principles. Kempo utilising more strikes as finishers than locks.

My JJJ instructor(7th Dan) is also a 4th Dan in Kempo and they work pretty well for him and a few others in my class.
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#234264 - 03/04/06 11:38 AM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: McSensei]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I would suggest learning all about jujitsu before you go shopping for another art. There is plenty of offense in jujitsu and if you're searching for a "hitting art", the opportunities that exist in jujitsu are limitless. Like many others, you're evidently being taught by someone who is so stuck on one phase of training that they aren't expressing any understanding of their whole art.

There is a whole separate "art" (branch of jujitsu) known as "kyusho jitsu" that involves "methods of striking the body", which is taught primarily as a "hitting point" study of the body and it's vunerable points that can be struck or pressed to disable your opponent. It too is just another expression of jujitsu training, but the striking methods of most arts are the same, only the tactical uses differ.

You have to understand that many of these "teachers" are students that learn just enough to go out and show off a bit and gather a following. If they're legitimate senseis, you should be able to address the hitting methods of your art with them and have them give you reasonable answers about the techniques of your art that use them. Most of the jujitsu schools I've been associated with had a base of karate training affiliated with them to learn hitting skills. If you need to find another school to learn hitting skills, you need to find another jujitsu teacher as well, because every jujitsu style has hitting methods and skills built into their system.

I laugh every time I hear aikido people talk about there not being any striking techniques in Aikido, because I hit the opponent on every technique, usually several times as the technique is done, so there is a "level of understanding" that you need before you go "art shopping" to fill in your gaps. What you might need to do is have a talk with your sensei and see what their take on your problem is. If they tell you to go shopping, you need to find both another art and another teacher.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#234265 - 03/04/06 12:20 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: wristtwister]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Unfortunatley, that is more an idealistic than a realistic answer. In the USA, there are relatively few people teaching JJ that have such a "comprehensive" knowledge of the art that they can effectively teach it in it's totality. Prospective students are at the mercy of whomever is local as a new student won't travel great distances to train and wouldn't know the difference in the training if he did.

Those that I have encountered that claim this have always seemed to be using it as a tactic to keep students from looking elsewhere with the "I'll teach that stuff to you when you are ready" line. In my opinion, instructors who do this tend to spread themselves so thin that they fall victim to the "jack of all trades/ master of none" curse.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#234266 - 03/04/06 07:01 PM Re: offensive ma to go with JJJ [Re: Fletch1]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

In the USA, there are relatively few people teaching JJ that have such a "comprehensive" knowledge of the art that they can effectively teach it in it's totality.




I might differ with you on this. I've found plenty of people in the Okinawan Karate Union that are teaching both jujitsu and Okinawan karate both skillfully and with good knowledge. The National Karate and Jujitsu Union also has plenty of cross-trained people who have attachments to both Shito Ryu karate and jujitsu.

Almost anyone with any experience has a "preferred art" that they teach, and focus on that aspect of training, but that doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing it. I do agree with you, however, that most of the time, these prima-donna "masters" have one skill and a line of guami that runs from the barn to the house.

We all learn different things from different people, and I have no problem with someone learning striking skills in a karate school, or throwing techniques in a judo or aikido school. They do need to have both, however, and they need to be working on both all the time, whether they are using either of them as their primary art. I studied jujitsu and karate and judo at the same time, and then later began studying aikido to improve my jujitsu. I had great success at all of the skills, more because I wanted to learn to do it all, and there are still skills I'd like to learn, but I've been happy to train for the past 43 years and with a lot of good martial artists.

My foundations in Isshin Ryu and Shotokan karate and in judo have made a lot of the training much easier, although it has created some "bumps in the road" politically for me, but I certainly have no problems with learning skills from anyone that knows what they're doing. I would just suggest that if a teacher has a "hole in their training", they be honest enough to tell their students that they need something further from someone else.

Bushido requires "a clean mind, a pure heart, and a steadfast and loyal obedience", and I would have a problem with any teacher that refused to allow his students to learn from someone else. That's myopic thinking at its worst.

I've trained in seminars with karate masters like Hidetaka Nishiyama and Shogo Kuniba, and aikido senseis like Fumio Toyoda and Yamada sensei, and no one in the world has many better credentials than that, so if you pick who you train with, you can get a lot out of some short term training with world class people. If you time your attendance to their seminars with your training, you can accomplish a lot with seminar training for deficiencies.

I doubt if anybody "has it all", because there's a new day every morning, and people being what they are, will invent something that works in any given situation. I do disagree with you though that people won't travel great distances to train... I did it for years, and slept on dojo floors, couches at the sensei's house, and in the back of my car. It all depends on how badly you want "it"... whatever "it" might be.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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