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#234188 - 02/26/06 12:01 AM Difference between MT and a karate kick
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
This is about front kicks:

In karate they kick with the ball of the foot, just under the toes, and as far as I know in MT they kick with tehe heel but every now and again i see MT guys hitting with the ball of the foot, is this another technique or sloppy technique?

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#234189 - 02/26/06 12:03 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Long Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 6
I've just started taking muay thai kick boxing and one of the kicks i've learned is the teeb (front kick) and i was told to use the ball of my foot..

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#234190 - 02/26/06 12:19 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Long]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Hey long, welcome.

Thats the ball near the toes and not the heel right?
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#234191 - 02/26/06 12:23 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Long Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 6
Hello, thanks for the welcome

Yes, the ball of the foot right under the toes. Although thats the way I was just taught there could be a chance that I am being taught the wrong things?

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#234192 - 02/26/06 12:30 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Long]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Well theres no such thing as the wrong thing as long as it works but it might effect the authenticness of the style, though MT does have a few variations witch may effect what they teach in that particular school.

I suppose I we both want answers well just have to wait for Taison. *cough*the future mod*cough*.
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#234193 - 02/26/06 06:11 PM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
Front kick can have different uses.

It can be used to try and hurt, to knock back someone, to keep someone away, as a probing kick, etc.

What you are trying to hit and what you are trying to do will determine how your kick should be thrown. There is not one proper way of throwing a front kick in either Muay Thai or Karate, but many variations that hit in different ways at different angles and with different goals.
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#234194 - 02/26/06 09:35 PM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Both can be used. Generally when on the offensive you will kick using the heel. Because when you kick your not going to re chamber but step down forward. Try this, take a step forward just like your kicking try it with the heel and than the balls of toes. You should notice that when using the heel of the foot you have more control coming down than when using the balls of the toes. Because when you walk naturally you walk heel to toe same as kicking with the heel and going forward also when walk you don't straighten out your foot exposing the balls of the toes in between each step. When driving forward and kicking with the balls of your toes the kick tends to produce more forward momentum making the step down feel awkward, you will find your self trying not to land on the balls of your toes

However when on the defensive and moving backward you will find your self using the balls of the toes more when your front kick to gain that little bit of distance to help keep your opponent at bay. Also, when moving backward and kicking at the same time it makes for a easier transition when setting the kicking leg down.

Nothing is black and white and some kicks will work better in certain situations than others will. learn to use both effectively.

Kevin

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#234195 - 02/27/06 12:32 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
It will vary from school to school regardless of the style.
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#234196 - 02/27/06 04:42 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Both arts kick with the ball of the foot.

About thrusting with your heel. Ever thought what would happen if you missed and then stepped down? Smack, uppercut to face cause you would have your face bent down a little. Perfect degree to throw the showel hook. 45 degree.
Anyone these days avoid using the heel as your momentum/center of gravity would be in the opponent. So if you hit and he suddenly moved to the side. You have your side open to him now.

Still, hitting with your heel would create a larger effect than just using the ball of the foot as the heel is larger and more force can be concentrated on it.

The last time I saw a heel delievered was to the face, not the stomach. If it was stomach, I think he'd use the ball of the foot. Too much risk with heel.

On the second note, I could be totally wrong. Maybe it's better to hit with your heel but personally, I'd never try it in a fight, I don't wanna get hurt because of some theory. Just use what you feel comfortable.

How is it delivered? Well, what I have seen is Karate's kicks ends with the foot being drawn back to the standing knee position while MT just thrust out and take down the leg to the ground. The same principle of pulling up your knee and then deliver is used for both arts.

-Taison out
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#234197 - 02/27/06 05:17 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Taison]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Thanks for the info, I thought youd be the one to give the answers with that marvellous multi martial arts background.
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The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#234198 - 02/28/06 04:03 PM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Taison]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

How is it delivered? Well, what I have seen is Karate's kicks ends with the foot being drawn back to the standing knee position while MT just thrust out and take down the leg to the ground. The same principle of pulling up your knee and then deliver is used for both arts.





In karate it can vary. a kick can either be withdrawn or dropped to the ground, usually if it is with-drawn the fighter is using it as a jab rather than a full blown attack, if it is dropped then the fighter will be advancing forwards to beat down an opponent.

on the subject of hittnig with the areas of the foot; i was trained to hit with the ball of the foot for a front/snap type kick and with the ball then following through with the heel for a push kick for the extra power and contact area.
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#234199 - 03/01/06 03:46 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Taison]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Both arts kick with the ball of the foot.




While Muay Thai is specific the term karate is very broad. The form of the front kick could vary from style to style and from school to school within the styles and being how there are hundreds of styles of karate you can't really say how each one will deliver or retract the kick if at all.

At my particular school however it may be delivered with either the heel or the ball depending on the situation. Also the foot will be retracted quickly for a snap or pushed forward for a thrust.


Edited by BrianS (03/01/06 03:51 AM)
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#234200 - 03/01/06 07:32 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
MuayThaiGuy1 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 9
Loc: UK
Of course there is also that nasty kick where you kick with the toes tensed up and straight into your opponent's bladder. This can cause internal injury and is particularly effective therefore in disabling someone on the street/in a pub etc.

But generally I would use the ball of my foot.
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Jimmy Fo

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#234201 - 03/02/06 12:40 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: MuayThaiGuy1]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
That kick's called "Neeb" and is actually a dud. It does hurt when hit with but still if you uppercut someone in that area he'll be down especially if done on women.

"Neeb" is considered as irrating technique used by many boxers who are not very popular. Just throw the neeb every now and then after a while, your opponent is gonna get real mad and just swing at you. That's when you sway and finish him off. Many boxers have been boo'ed at for using this technique and judges think twice before giving points for this technique.

Quote:

This can cause internal injury and is particularly effective therefore in disabling someone on the street/in a pub etc.



I doubt it. Tried it on a friend, he got mad, that's all. I didn't see any disabling effect. And remember, on the street if you have adrelarine, you won't probably feel this move until after the fight when your abdomen is all sore.

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#234202 - 03/05/06 10:27 AM Re: Difference between MT and a karate kick [Re: Taison]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Sounds like the old toe kick to me, heres something from the reading room about it, I could be wrong though.
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=407
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