great thread. I'm ready for the springtime Seisan study group gathering (it's spring now isn't it? ).

good work from all I say, i also agree that we have proberly reached a point - alot of info been shared here and thats good to see on an open forum.

How i would like to join you guys for a seisan study!!!!!!!!

Anything else I get I will post up,

Nah, you just want to see what I have left up my sleeve about Seisan.......


Just keep watching my right hand, that's where the action is.

LOL,

caught in the act.........


'group hug'

I have a question about a particular sequence of Higaonna-Seisan.

After the initial 3 step sequence. I've always done knife hand strike, then the 3 fast double circular parry/eye rake.

has anyone ever heard that particular sequence referred to as 'sun and moon'?

Not I, however i have heard/use the term used to reference the kamae start and finish to Passai. Sorry a little off topic......

Thanks sho, I'll look into that.
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another reference to Seisan I came across:

Tang Daiji (To Daiki, 1887-1937)

Born in Fuzhou, China and lived in Naha during 1915-1930. Friend of Gokenki, Miyagi and Mabuni and part of their study group (Kenkyokai) for 10-15 years.

ref source: www.meibukanmagazine.org article #4

my questions:
1.
Conflicting sources as to the style he taught.
Five Ancestor Fist or Whooping/White Crane or Tiger Boxing ?

2. Is it true he taught Seisan? If so...then what version and to whom?

also, perhaps connected, maybe not...has anyone ever seen To'on ryu Seisan? It would seem to be a key piece to the seisan-prime puzzle since it would't have Miyagi's changes/influence to the kata (if any). (see the 3-part series I referenced, articles #2,3,4).

Ed,

The best discription of Tou'on Ryu, provided by Mario McKenna is found in the 5th issue of Meibukan Magazine at:

http://www.meibukanmagazine.org/No5July2005.htm

I did meet Mario last year and have seen his Seisan, which bears resemblence to Goju's and many differences too.

Perhaps Meibukan, with very few practitioners has remained less changed from Hiagonna's original (of course how to prove it). Logic suggests that. Yet logic is never proof.

Perhaps you can put this on your discussion list for our next meet.

I am told that Toon ryu seisan comes from Kanyo Higashiaonna, a nephew of Kanryu Higashiaonna who also studied in China.
But why not look at the Seko Higa line (curiuos myselve), he was Miyagi's first student and also studied under Kanryu Higashiaonna.

Actually Mabuni also trained under Kanryu Higashiaonna, at his friend, Miyagi's, suggestion. But he also trained with Miyagi and Shito Ryu reflects those traditions.

From my humble perspective all of those versions, Tou'on Ryu, Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu fall within my Seisan template along with the rest.

But I suspect that the Tou'on Ryu version reflects the older, simply because it remained a private practice with fewer involved in its transmission.

Of course that's just an opinion, and all of those versions are equally yet differently applicable in my book.