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#233231 - 02/25/06 01:56 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: bobmax]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Bob,
Perhaps I was unclear. I'll try again. I excluded the punch and kick from consideration not because they aren't in my kata. I seperated them because they are practiced outside of the form. In your previous post you stated the "only" purpose kata was created for. My point was not to limit the creators intent by accepting your use of the word
"only" I take a very broad view of the potential of any activity. To use always, never or "only" excludes possibilities that the creators of the kata may have considered valid and intentional based on their own words. Let me add I have nothing but respect for Gavin. I find that we have much in common. One other thing. Don't feel the need to be the standard bearer for the practical training and application of kata. I simply shared from my experience two situation that happened in actuality and not theory. I don't know if you intended it but I find your "vacuos' comment condescending. You don't need to go there.

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#233232 - 02/25/06 03:10 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: oldman]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi All,

I've been reading everyone's posts and its interesting to see other people's idea's and purposes for practicing kata, its quite clear opinions vary but IMO none of the views shared can be classed right or wrong, IMO whatever you want to achieve from practicing kata is there to be found and taken, its up to the individual to decide what they want to gain from it, I myself practice kata completely from a combat point of view, i'll disect a kata and explore the applications/angles and direction etc, if you look beyond the physical applications you'll soon realise that there are other benefits for practicing kata for eg: the explosive energy that is felt when practicing Nai Hanchi, the feeling of being connected and rooted to the ground when performing Sanchin etc, also what about the intention and mind set that are developed from practicing kata these are key factors to surviving a real life situation, I feel that these views can be explained to a beginner but not appreciated by the beginner until they've found them for themselves, kind regards,

James.
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#233233 - 02/25/06 10:51 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: jamesd]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

you'll soon realise that there are other benefits for practicing kata for eg: the explosive energy that is felt when practicing Nai Hanchi, the feeling of being connected and rooted to the ground when performing Sanchin etc, also what about the intention and mind set that are developed from practicing kata these are key factors...




Thanks for putting in better words on my "hammer & nails" comment
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#233234 - 02/26/06 12:13 AM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: oldman]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
This is what I intended to say in my previous post which I was unable to edit.
Quote:

"I" don't feel the need to be the standard bearer for the practical training and application of kata.




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#233235 - 02/26/06 04:47 AM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: ButterflyPalm]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
No Worries mate! I liked the hammer and nails quote! regards,

James.
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#233236 - 02/26/06 06:18 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: McSensei]
bobmax Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 26
Loc: toronto,ontario,canada
put a pure kata man against a pure fighting man and what do you you think the result will be? Don't insult the intelligence of the forum-reading public.

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#233237 - 02/26/06 06:42 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: ButterflyPalm]
bobmax Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 26
Loc: toronto,ontario,canada
ah, there is so much more to it, and therein lies the beauty. I come in with what appears to be a grab, but.. ha! it is a kick. What looks like a punch is in fact a different punch. Subtlety is the name of the fighting game, and obviousness of intention is the name of the kata-as-self-defence game. But hiding one's intentions is a concept taught even to orange belts. Why do black belts continue to respond, in kata, to moronically clear attacks?

It's because YOU CAN'T BE PERFECT WHEN IN COMBAT!!!

Kata is about perfection. Knowing what's coming and reponding in as efficient a manner as possible.

Combat is about winning. Perfectly or, usually, not.

Never the twain shall meet

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#233238 - 02/26/06 06:44 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: bobmax]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
My mistake, I should have added...

*for those that need stating the obvious*

...that neither training method is exclusive or preclusive.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#233239 - 02/26/06 07:08 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: bobmax]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
bobmax,

Ofcourse noone was suggesting doing just kata and becoming a proficient fighter and for those who are strictly doing ma for nhb events I wouldn't waste my time with kata,it's not what it's for.

Do kata or do not.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#233240 - 02/26/06 07:38 PM Re: Karate master and student conversation... [Re: McSensei]
bobmax Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 26
Loc: toronto,ontario,canada
ok your reply is calming me down; you're not the typical respondent who feels the egoistic need to defend kata as some sort of mystical secret-vault, simply because they were taught to revere, or they themselves like, kata (NOT THAT ANYTHING IS WRONG WITH THOSE; I AM AMONG THEM!)

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