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#233056 - 02/22/06 09:00 AM Goju Ryu - Concarge
_JP Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Massachusetts
I am not sure if that is the correct spelling of it, but in any case I know that it is an upper level kata. I am told that some american goju styles do not teach more than 10 kata but this style does, just to clear up some people not recognizing the name. If anyone could pass me a movement listing thatd be great, Ive looked everywhere.

Thank yall

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#233057 - 02/22/06 09:19 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: _JP]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
List of Goju-ryu kata follows.
Gekisai Dai Ichi
Gekisai Dai Ni
Saifa
Seiunchin
Shishochin
Sanseru
Sepai
Kururunfa
Seisan
Suparimpei
Sanchin
Tensho

Concarge????? huh?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#233058 - 02/22/06 09:22 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: _JP]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
What style/school? Where did you 'hear' this?

Quote:

I am told that some american goju styles do not teach more than 10 kata but this style does



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#233059 - 02/22/06 10:08 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: _JP]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
how about: Carnage? lol

in your profile: "Student of Kyoshi Lord Utmost Amor El"
isn't that from 'the deadly dojo'? http://www.deadlydojo.com/

nice. lol. why don't you ask 'Lord Utmost' this question....or would he have to kill you?

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#233060 - 02/22/06 10:37 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: Ed_Morris]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

how about: Carnage? lol

in your profile: "Student of Kyoshi Lord Utmost Amor El"
isn't that from 'the deadly dojo'? http://www.deadlydojo.com/

nice. lol. why don't you ask 'Lord Utmost' this question....or would he have to kill you?




I so eagerly clicked on the "Submissions" link....hoping for some nifty "submissions" instead got a bunch a bloody articles! In the states do you have a "false advertising" law thingy??? If so, I'm suing!!! www.deadlydojo.com .....ahem....*cough*...McDojo...*cough*!...atleast they don't *seem* to take themselves too seriously.....luckily!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#233061 - 02/22/06 11:22 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
the 'deadly crew' seem very well qualified from the site information, i like the way the dojo is presented so softly..............
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#233062 - 02/22/06 11:57 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Please say you missed a "winky" smilie off the end of that one.....
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#233063 - 02/22/06 03:08 PM Re [Re: Ed_Morris]
_JP Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Massachusetts
Even if you have your doubts about having not been to it or competed against it, it isnt the volidaty of my school that I am asking about.

To explain myself in the respect of the kata I asked about I will go through the history of them and to explain why my school has more than 10 as most american goju ryu dojo have. Kanryo Higashionna sensei being the master of Miyagi sensei, he developed many of the traditional kata having studied Naha Te, kempo and the eventual formation of the goju ryu system. Chogun Miyagi being the next goju ryu master, combining his experience in Naha Te, Pa Kua and the southern chinese shaolin styles developed the fundamentals of goju ryu. He developed the first 2 kata for the style, which were sanchin and tensho. The next master was of course Gogen Yamaguchi, who besides incorporating ju kumite into the style as opposed to yakusoku kumite, as well as the Taikyoku Katas, which are the kata still used today to teach beginner students. The immediate successor to Yamaguchi sensei of course being Peter urban, the man who brought goju ryu to the united states. Urban sensei worked on the katas and from them made slight adjustments and started teaching Gekisai 1 and 2, Shisochin, Sanseiru, Seisan, Seipai, Kururunfa and Superinpei as well as the 2 original kata (sanchin and tensho) as USA Goju katas. Quite a few forms of the traditional schools were not included in the teachings of Urban sensei, and my master studied under Yamaguchi sensei where he learned the forms that were not taught by USA goju. That is why I was hoping there were other japanese artists here as well as the USA goju practitioners. I am still learning the art though and I may have made mistakes in this though, but for the doubtful I have been to mcdojo's. I even got a black belt at one, and all the time never felt as if I was getting much out of it. It was after I came to my master that started to learn the traditional arts and train myself and incorporate karate into my everyday life, spiritually and physically.

And I believe his names (Lord Utmost Amor El) is a religious thing. I thought that it was odd at first without meeting him, but seeing him compete and being taught by him and seeing firsthand his skills dismissed my thoughts of it.

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chojun_Miyagi
http://gojuryu.net/readarticle.php?article_id=31
http://www.gojuryu.net/viewpage.php?page_id=36
http://lovekarate.com/page8.html


Edited by _JP (02/22/06 03:25 PM)

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#233064 - 02/22/06 03:14 PM Re: Re [Re: _JP]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Even if you have your doubts abou have not been to it or competed against it, it isnt the volidaty of my school that I am asking about.




True enough. While all the "Utmost", etc, is a trifle overdone IMHO, let's try to stay on topic for JP, Ok?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#233065 - 02/22/06 03:23 PM Re: Re [Re: _JP]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thanks, JP, for the reply. I was unclear from your original post where you learned the term...from the internet, a book, a school, etc..

Welcome to the forum.

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#233066 - 02/22/06 03:35 PM Re: Re [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
ok...I'll play nice.

first, I assume you are only interested in the Yamaguchi-Urban lineage, but in order to find your answer, you may need to look at the much more encompasing Okinawan lineage (after all, Miyagi was Okinawan and had much more influence there than in Japan). Right near you over in Watertown, Mass in fact is Anthony Mirakian...one of the first Americans to bring Okinawan Goju to the US.

The kata you first asked about I've never heard anything in Goju even resemble that name...actually it doesn't even sound Chinese, Okinawan, or Japanese so I didn't even try to guess what you meant. now, from the list of 10 kata you gave you didn't mention Saifa and Seiunchin. that may give a clue.

do you know what kata you are looking for if you see it? or are you searching for just the name at this point?

sidenote: Sanchin kata was not invented by Miyagi, true he changed it from how Higashionna taught it, but he called it by the same name. It's likely Higashionna did not create Sanchin kata either...need to go further back. what you'll find is that nobody is really sure who created Sanchin kata.

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#233067 - 02/22/06 04:07 PM Re: Re [Re: _JP]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
JP

First thing is that nobody is sure exactly what Miyagi studied in China, or exactly what effect it had on goju.

2nd Yamguchi certainly was the the man in japan for goju, but Miyagi had a number of direct students in Okniwa that trained with him just as long or longer, they also run a number of goju organizations.

3td the beginer kata you mention were devloped by Miyagi--and Mabuni of Shito ryu also seems ot have helped develop them as that style use them as well.

4th As Ed said, Sanchin is a very old kata,, predating Higashiona and Miyagi both--though as goes the story Miyagi developed the current version.

I do okinwan goju and have never heard of the form in question.

Sorry I could not be more help.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#233068 - 02/22/06 09:02 PM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: _JP]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Ask your instructor, Utmost Amor (Supreme Love?).

It's clear that you haven't had REAL Traditional or Classical training (even though you think you did). There is no kata I know of that even sounds even remotely close to "Concarge".

owari

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#233069 - 02/22/06 09:23 PM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: hedkikr]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Maybe its Con Carne. After all his name is Amor

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#233070 - 02/22/06 10:00 PM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: hedkikr]
_JP Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Massachusetts
I think its a 6th or seventh dan kata, which is why im not allowed to learn it yet. It sounds more like (kon car gA). But in any case the education is good enough for me, and I view it to be pretty good. The proof of that he must know a thing or two came actually about 2-3 weekends ago at a tournament in nyc we went to, a judo master and former olympian was doing jujitsu in the tournament as it was being allowed, as well as some other not so normal divisions such as olympic style taekwondoe and mixed weapons point sparring. They were all great additions, but back to the point. The judo guy won the overall jujitsu heavyweight division, which was seperate from the one which was going on later that day specifically for masters. He had beaten some really good guys, including a grandmaster of some karate style who was just a huge powerhouse. When he went up against my master though, he was just put in a chicken wing and tapped out in 15 seconds. That was when I stopped doubting him, cause to be blunt I was skeptical at first about his claims of his achievements.

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#233071 - 02/23/06 02:26 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: _JP]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Humorous Masters competing in tournaments and mix tourneys at that. You guys are so tolerant and thoughtful. In my 30 years of MA studies I've never heard of and would say IMHO there is no Kata with the Name of Concarge in the Goju-ryu system be it American or Japan/Okinawan.

It could be a self made Kata this guy is Master of his own system. And he did chicken winging a Judo mix MA Champion, tapping him out. Was your Master part of the competition or just decided to tap him out?



Edited by Neko456 (02/23/06 02:26 AM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#233072 - 02/23/06 08:49 AM Re: Goju Ryu - Concarge [Re: Neko456]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
In fairness, he did ONLY want to know if anyone has heard of a particular kata. He didn't want evaluation of his instructor, web site, lineage or system.

our appologies (especially mine). The answer to the thread question is a unanimous: No, we haven't heard of it.

Good Luck in your research, JP.

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