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#232880 - 02/21/06 05:45 PM slip
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
I am having trouble learning to slip, should you twist your hips as you would with a punch or is it a smaller movement than that. Trying to twist my hips too much always results in me getting klobbered (too slow). Any1 have any tips on practicing it solo other than in front of the mirror??
Also, (last question) i am not familiar with slips in MT and KB do they use them often, are they the same??
Thanx in advance
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#232881 - 02/21/06 05:52 PM Re: slip [Re: TwistingKick]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
I can't speak for MT, but I have done a bit of kickboxing, and slipping is used pretty much the same way. Slips (as I know them) do not involve a lot of up-and-down movement.

Bobbing and weaving/ducking you have to be a bit more careful with in kickboxing, as it is easy to bob right into a rising kick. Even moreso in MT, where you have knees to contend with.

PAGING WILDBILL OR TAISON!!!
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#232882 - 02/21/06 09:26 PM Re: slip [Re: TwistingKick]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
In MT, there is no slip. Slipping will result in you eating that knee, with your front teeth.

Duck however is used as it is not allowed to bash someone at the back of his head. So in MT, there are to evasive motion, duck and sway back. Nothing to the side, if need be, MT boxers would sidestep their whole body.

Kickboxing uses ALL techniques of boxing so slip, weave, duck, sway and duck is all used.

Practice? You need rhytm training. I suggest you hand a ball of a tree or something and make it swing to and fro. From there you duck, weave and bob under the ball before it hits you in the head. Remember, when the ball has passed you, turn around and evade again. This will become a reflex after a while and it will help in the ring. E.g. If you evade a punch but miss your chance to attack, you will instantly turn around and if your opponent attack, you will evade again. Another training is pad work. Do the one-two combo and then your partner slaps you without telling left or right, you must evade it.

Good luck.

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#232883 - 02/22/06 05:20 AM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

In MT, there is no slip. Slipping will result in you eating that knee, with your front teeth.

Duck however is used as it is not allowed to bash someone at the back of his head. So in MT, there are to evasive motion, duck and sway back. Nothing to the side, if need be, MT boxers would sidestep their whole body.






I don't know what you mean about this knee. Would you not be more likely to take a knee to the face if you ducked a punch than slipped out of the way. I don't get it , could you explain please?
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#232884 - 02/22/06 05:35 AM Re: slip [Re: Ayub]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ah, dammit, I forgot to elaborate.

Before, MT had slips during the early days (1920) which was very influenced by British Boxing (Same one as Savate, Queensbury?).

Now in MT, people are constantly side-stepping. A fact that differentiates KB and MT. KB is more linear, where as MT goes to the sides. Now, if you slip to the right when your opponent knee comes from his left side, you'll be taking that knee quite hard.

When I was taught slipping in Boxing, it was performed by ducking and then moving to the outside. You do that in a MT match, it will hurt.

Now, in MT you don't duck TOWARDS your opponent. You just crouch down on the spot with your back straight. With luck, your opponent's kick will fly pass your head and you'll be standing behind him. Boxing's duck is also not advisable, due to the risk of getting the knee.

I'll post a picture of the duck later, if I can find that picture.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#232885 - 02/22/06 05:49 AM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Sorry I still ..... If a jab came in and you twisted your trunk and moved your head to the outside (so your head hasn't lowered at all), why would you be susceptible to a knee attack? I understand you would have to duck a high roundhouse or get out of there but for hand techniques, whats wrong with the regular slip and counter?
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#232886 - 02/22/06 05:50 AM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
Quote:

You just crouch down on the spot with your back straight. With luck, your opponent's kick will fly pass your head and you'll be standing behind him.



I read somewhere if you do this and follow up with a jumping knee to the opponents back it is regarded as being a very advanced technique and will likely be followed by a standing ovation from the crowd (??), was wondering if you could confirm this and also i would've thought a knee to the back would not be allowed??

Cheerz
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#232887 - 02/22/06 06:05 AM Re: slip [Re: TwistingKick]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This move was last performed in 1937. It was the last time that MT was to be fought outside a building.

Well, the guy hit the other guy on the back and the victim couldn't stand for another 3 days.

This technique is a technique of Muay Boran, especially Muay Lopburi. It is allowed in Lumpini but not in Ratchadamnoern. Hitting someone with a jumping knee on the back, especially the area near the kidney hurts A LOT and the damage can be permanent. Peeing blood is one thing, hit too high and the dude can't walk. Lumpini is said to be the Super-bowl of Thailand. Hardcore, freestyle Muay Thai for Pro's. They got less rules than Rachadamnoern, and I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed headbutts in 2008.

-Taison out
Jumping knee is cool. Too bad it's too risky.
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#232888 - 02/22/06 06:17 AM Re: slip [Re: Ayub]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Wait. . That's called bob. Just twisting your trunk and moving your head to the outside is called a bob.

Slip is when you duck under the punch to the sides thus resulting in you getting to the outside.

Bob is perfectly fine in a MT match. Bob and Weave is ok. Slipping, no no business when knees are involved. Look at K-1, not many slip these days.

Slip is basic. Bob and Weave are the advanced version of the slip. Good slipping will result in good bobbing.

MattJ, help me! help me!

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#232889 - 02/22/06 06:20 AM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ahhh okey, thanx for the in-depth info, much appreciated!!!
Anymore posts on slipping welcome!

p.s. Taison for mod

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#232890 - 02/22/06 06:21 AM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

Wait. . That's called bob. Just twisting your trunk and moving your head to the outside is called a bob.

Slip is when you duck under the punch to the sides thus resulting in you getting to the outside.

Bob is perfectly fine in a MT match. Bob and Weave is ok. Slipping, no no business when knees are involved. Look at K-1, not many slip these days.

Slip is basic. Bob and Weave are the advanced version of the slip. Good slipping will result in good bobbing.

MattJ, help me! help me!

-Taison out




Are you sure???

I may be a very confused individual, but I always thought that: bobbing and weaving was referent to movements of only the head. Bobbing, from to bob (up and down), meaning moving the head and down... and weaving being a swaying motion, meaning moving the head from side to side. Now, one must keep the head unstatic to try and make your opponent miss as its obviously harder to hit a moving target. You can also you bobbing and weaving to evade shots. Movement of your hands in a similar way is also desireable as it makes any shot less telegraphic.

Slipping on the other hand, is the twisting of the torso, used with a little weaving to make hand techniques miss giving you the perfect opportunity to counter. One should slip as late as they dare in order to not give the agressor time to opportunity to change his attack.

That's why I wasnt following knee danger Taison, if you only twisted to get away from a punch you are in an advantageous position.


Edited by Ayub (02/22/06 06:54 AM)
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#232891 - 02/22/06 08:36 AM Re: slip [Re: Ayub]
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
Quote:

Slipping on the other hand, is the twisting of the torso




definitely?? i have been taught to try and minimize the twist as it is slower.

p.s. sorrry bout the anonymous post, forgot to sign in
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Even monkeys fall from trees sometimes!!

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#232892 - 02/22/06 08:40 AM Re: slip [Re: TwistingKick]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
I am just talking movements here, not amounts of specific technique. Listen to what you have been taught.
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Cut me Mick!

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#232893 - 02/22/06 01:38 PM Re: slip [Re: TwistingKick]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Definitions from Wikipedia -

Slip - Slipping rotates the body slightly so that an incoming punch passes harmlessly next to the head. As the opponent's punch arrives, the boxer sharply rotates the hips and shoulders. This turns the chin sideways and allows the punch to "slip" past.

Bob and Weave - Bobbing moves the head laterally and beneath an incoming punch. As the opponent's punch arrives, the boxer bends the legs quickly and simultaneously shifts the body either slightly right or left. Once the punch has been evaded, the boxer "weaves" back to an upright position, emerging on either the outside or inside of the opponent's still-extended arm. To move outside the opponent's extended arm is called "bobbing to the outside". To move inside the opponent's extended arm is called "bobbing to the inside".

I have always associated the "bob" part with the up/down portion of the move, but it appears from that definition to include the lateral movement as well. From the definition of the slip used here, it seems like it would still be safe to use in MT.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#232894 - 02/22/06 02:07 PM Re: slip [Re: MattJ]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

Definitions from Wikipedia -

Slip - Slipping rotates the body slightly so that an incoming punch passes harmlessly next to the head. As the opponent's punch arrives, the boxer sharply rotates the hips and shoulders. This turns the chin sideways and allows the punch to "slip" past.

Bob and Weave - Bobbing moves the head laterally and beneath an incoming punch. As the opponent's punch arrives, the boxer bends the legs quickly and simultaneously shifts the body either slightly right or left. Once the punch has been evaded, the boxer "weaves" back to an upright position, emerging on either the outside or inside of the opponent's still-extended arm. To move outside the opponent's extended arm is called "bobbing to the outside". To move inside the opponent's extended arm is called "bobbing to the inside".

I have always associated the "bob" part with the up/down portion of the move, but it appears from that definition to include the lateral movement as well. From the definition of the slip used here, it seems like it would still be safe to use in MT.




I should be Moderator!!
_________________________
Cut me Mick!

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#232895 - 02/23/06 01:24 AM Re: slip [Re: Ayub]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
We need pictures up next time. This is harder to explain than I thought.

I checked it out last night. There are two types of slips. One is duck-down and to the side, which I was refering to. The one that Ayub was talking about was the backward sway slip [Twist your torso, like said in Wikipedia].

Now Ayub wrote twisting the body and moving the head, so I thought he meant bobbing.

Now Ayub. Slipping is a very complicated matter in Kickboxing matches. If you slip to the outside, it's fairly safe, but if you slip to the inside [which some people prefer], it is possible to get hit by the knee. Also, in MT matches people don't put much force in their hands like boxers do as they have other weapons they can use like their feet. Thus it is really rare to see someone who tries to lunge a straight with full force, and the slip wouldn't successful. MT boxers don't commit their hands in short.

MT boxers uses the jab to gauge distance, so it is quite difficult to slip a far-away jab. Another thing, you slip to the outside, there's the risk of the elbow. Many have been caught with the re-tracting elbow from the a slipped jab.

But in all, it is ok to use slip in MT matches but much of the fighting is not high, it's more centered around the middle section of your body. Thus, when you see 2 MT boxers punching away, you will notice they are hitting the chest area rather than the face as boxers have the habit of covering their faces with the huge gloves.

Another reason. It is hard to slip when the opponent thinks of clinching as soon as you get near. So most of the fighting is long-range or clinch. Not many people fight "inside" like Kickboxers and boxers do.

But still, Ayub you have proven a point. If occassion occurs, it is possible to use a slip but there are more risks involved when you have the ability to fully use your whole body.

-Taison out

Quote:

I should be Moderator!!



Bump. . Read my signature. . .
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#232896 - 02/23/06 04:52 PM Re: slip [Re: Taison]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Not Bad Taison!
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Cut me Mick!

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