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#232246 - 02/19/06 12:30 AM Shorinji Kempo
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Could we have a discussion forum specifically for Shorinji Kempo, to go with all the other dedicated forums, please?
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232247 - 02/19/06 11:30 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
We will consider your request. Currently all the SRK posts are going to the Karate or Martial Arts Talk forums.
_________________________
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#232248 - 02/22/06 05:42 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: MattJ]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

We will consider your request. Currently all the SRK posts are going to the Karate or Martial Arts Talk forums.



Which is about as sensible as discussing swimming, skiing, or curling there. Hence my request.
Cheers.
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232249 - 02/22/06 10:15 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Shorinji Kempo is not Martial Arts?

Well then I guess you should go to a swimming forum.

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#232250 - 02/22/06 10:43 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: JoelM]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

Shorinji Kempo is not Martial Arts?

Well then I guess you should go to a swimming forum.



So why then delineate between karate (which is a generic term anyway) and aikido for example? Or do you somehow regard these arts as more worthy of their own forum?
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232251 - 02/22/06 10:52 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
The normal criteria for forming a new forum for a specific art/topic is a large amount of interest and members that will use that forum. If there are enough people that want a Shorinji Kempo Forum, then I'm sure the Administrator will take that into consideration. As said before, until that happens, please use the most appropriate forum to hold your discussions (Martial Arts Talk Forum is nice and generic).
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#232252 - 02/22/06 11:13 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: JoelM]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

The normal criteria for forming a new forum for a specific art/topic is a large amount of interest and members that will use that forum. If there are enough people that want a Shorinji Kempo Forum, then I'm sure the Administrator will take that into consideration. As said before, until that happens, please use the most appropriate forum to hold your discussions (Martial Arts Talk Forum is nice and generic).



Understood, but I think you've created a Catch 22 situation; unless there is a specific Shorinji Kempo forum, Shorinji Kenshi will stay away, but unless they post in great numbers, there won't be a specific Shorinji Kempo forum...
For now, however, I'll stick to the general forum.
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232253 - 02/23/06 12:05 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
It is a bit of a catch 22, but if we create a new forum for every little style that wants one, There will be 100 forums with 5 posts each in them.
Just doesn't seem productive to me. Hopefully the quality of general and specific posts on here will lure people here and keep them.

I do look forward to learning about your art and your views on MA in general.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#232254 - 02/23/06 12:18 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: JoelM]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

It is a bit of a catch 22, but if we create a new forum for every little style that wants one, There will be 100 forums with 5 posts each in them.
Just doesn't seem productive to me. Hopefully the quality of general and specific posts on here will lure people here and keep them.

I do look forward to learning about your art and your views on MA in general.



I wouldn't exactly call Shorinji Kempo little, with 1.5 million members in 34 countries (at last count).
I'd be very happy to answer any questions you may have regarding the art, although the Wikipedia entry is pretty good.
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232255 - 02/23/06 12:29 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Sorry, I meant little as in a style that has little(smaller) representation of members on this site, hence a lesser need for a specific forum for said style.
_________________________
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#232256 - 02/23/06 01:52 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

Quote:

Shorinji Kempo is not Martial Arts?

Well then I guess you should go to a swimming forum.



So why then delineate between karate (which is a generic term anyway) and aikido for example? Or do you somehow regard these arts as more worthy of their own forum?




LOL

What a winning manner of making a request!!!
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#232257 - 02/23/06 02:34 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: JoelM]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

Sorry, I meant little as in a style that has little(smaller) representation of members on this site, hence a lesser need for a specific forum for said style.



Yes, that's what I took you to mean.
Of course, that's where Joseph Heller comes in...
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232258 - 03/01/06 01:22 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: kusojiji]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Shorinji Kempo is not Martial Arts?

Well then I guess you should go to a swimming forum.



So why then delineate between karate (which is a generic term anyway) and aikido for example? Or do you somehow regard these arts as more worthy of their own forum?




LOL

What a winning manner of making a request!!!




Could we please have a American Goju for those who train in their backyard on Wednesdays and Saturdays even in the rain forum?

Why the hell not ya [censored]!!!

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#232259 - 03/02/06 12:29 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: BrianS]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
[quote Could we please have a American Goju for those who train in their backyard on Wednesdays and Saturdays even in the rain forum?

Why the hell not ya [censored]!!!




For a start because they can't claim a membership of 1.5 million, and secondly because a backyard is not a dojo, so I take it that they can't be a proper, legitimate style.
Or, as I asked earlier, do you regard generic karate and Aikido as somehow more worthy than Shorinji Kempo?
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232260 - 03/02/06 02:00 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Oh yeah, this is likely to go somewhere...
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#232261 - 03/02/06 06:53 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
There have been postings from Shorinji guys, strangely enough onm the Chinese arts page!

How about amalgamating it on Aikido?
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#232262 - 03/02/06 07:13 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I did a google for "shorinji kempo forum" there are quite a few. you could go to those until this forum has completed setting up just the way you like it.

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#232263 - 03/02/06 12:35 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Kimpatsu -

As of yet we have not seen enough interest to open a dedicated forum for the SRK folks. That does not mean it's off the table forever. But frankly, I do not wish to open (relatively) narrow focus forums if possible. I have already closed one that was not used too much, and the Daito ryu forum remains pretty under-utilized IMO.

Your request has been noted, however.
_________________________
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#232264 - 03/03/06 01:48 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I did a google for "shorinji kempo forum" there are quite a few. you could go to those until this forum has completed setting up just the way you like it.




Maybe he should just start his own site?

Quote:

For a start because they can't claim a membership of 1.5 million, and secondly because a backyard is not a dojo, so I take it that they can't be a proper, legitimate style.
Or, as I asked earlier, do you regard generic karate and Aikido as somehow more worthy than Shorinji Kempo?





That really hurts my feelings.

Show me how shorinji kempo is not karate? I think it's close enough. 1.5 million is not taht big compared to the world population. How about a goju forum? Shorin-Ryu? Each of the different kunf fu's? This could get big.
_________________________
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#232265 - 03/03/06 01:53 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: trevek]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

There have been postings from Shorinji guys, strangely enough onm the Chinese arts page!

How about amalgamating it on Aikido?



The stuff on the Chinese atrs page isn't Shorinji Kempo; it's a different art. And ixnay on the Aikido, thanks. That makes absolutely no sense.
_________________________
I only do Shorinji Kempo for kicks.

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#232266 - 03/03/06 02:02 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: BrianS]
Kimpatsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:

I did a google for "shorinji kempo forum" there are quite a few. you could go to those until this forum has completed setting up just the way you like it.



OK for them but not for thee?
Quote:

Show me how shorinji kempo is not karate? I think it's close enough. 1.5 million is not taht big compared to the world population. How about a goju forum? Shorin-Ryu? Each of the different kunf fu's? This could get big.



Easy. For starters, no style of karate has Juho waza. Nor does it have howa. Or Seiho. So, three of our four main planks are not represented by karate in any way, shape or form. Karate does not have embu. It does not have a monolithic organisation with the world's largest private HQ. No style of karate is united under a single banner with a single ethos or a unity of purpose. Our terminology is different, our raison d'etre is different, our approach is different, and most telling of all... if I go to the karate forum and ask any of the following questions, no one will be able to answer them:
What typifies ryouken waza?
What is the essence of Shorinji Kempo?
What is the meaning of bu and the essence of budo?
Personally, I don't know what the differences are between, for example, goju ryu and Shotokan, or any other faction or style within the rubric of karate. That is something for karateka to decide amongst themselves. No karateka is a Shorinji Kenshi, however, and vice versa.
Clear enough?
_________________________
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#232267 - 03/03/06 02:38 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Chill dog.
Quote:

no style of karate has Juho waza





juho waza are techniques where one learns defends against different type of grabs and throws and I can't think of any style of karate that does not have this.

Quote:

Nor does it have howa




howa is just a philosophy period. I look at karate as a philosophy. All karate has philosophy.


Quote:

So, three of our four main planks are not represented by karate in any way, shape or form




Apparently they are and you just don't know it.

Quote:

What typifies ryouken waza?





Translation for those of you who are not impressed with the display of complicated terminology.Eluding juho family technique.
Can't answer that one bra'!

Quote:

What is the essence of Shorinji Kempo?





I'm sure this could be answered in the karate forum since they are very similar.
How about "Creating a healthy body and mind."

Quote:

What is the meaning of bu and the essence of budo?





The martial way has been discussed and still can be if you want to expand your horizons and open your mind a wee bit.

Quote:

Personally, I don't know what the differences are between, for example, goju ryu and Shotokan, or any other faction or style within the rubric of karate. That is something for karateka to decide amongst themselves. No karateka is a Shorinji Kenshi, however, and vice versa.





You obviously and sadly don't know anything but Shorinji Kempo hence the posting in this forum and I still don't see where it merits it's own forum. The techniques are similar if not the same to most karate. Philosophy,bring it on homeskillet.

Quote:

Clear enough?




Yeah,clear as mud.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#232268 - 03/03/06 11:35 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

...they can't claim a membership of 1.5 million,




With 1.5m members, you can start a new country, let alone an Internet Forum. Why not apply to the UN for membership?

Quote:

do you regard generic karate and Aikido as somehow more worthy than Shorinji Kempo?




Of course not. I regard the ButterflyPalm System far more worthy.

When I am in a better mood, I shall be pestering for a Forum on the "Comparative Worthiness of Martial Art Systems"

I am sure you will be a valued contributor.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#232269 - 03/04/06 05:28 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Kimpatsu (and everyone),

As the forum admin (MattJ) has indicated, this matter is under consideration and has been taken up with Mr Caile, the owner of FightingArts.com. As far as I am aware, the matter is still under consideration. As soon as Mr Caile makes a decision, we will advise you of the outcome.

Please refrain from making any further inflammatory remarks on this issue as it does not serve anyone, and is contrary to the ethics of Shorinji Kenshi (and the Martial Arts generally).

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

PS: Instead of being exclusive and divisive, perhaps it would better serve the FightingArts community, if everyone can help each other see the similarities in their respective arts, and learn to appreciate the differences.



Edited by eyrie (03/04/06 05:42 AM)

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#232270 - 03/04/06 09:08 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Kimpatsu,

apologies for making a suggestion. While I know Aikido isn't remotely like SK I was just suggesting it as somewhere to put it. Maybe you'd prefer Judo, JJ?

It was only a suggestion.

As for the matter of SK on the Chinese page, well it wasn't me who put it there, it was someone from the Glasgow SK club who started a thread. Believe me, the Glasgow University Club is indeed SK. I have no idea why they wanted to put a Japanese style on a Chinese forum... it isn't my fault, please believe me... please forgive me...

TREVEK takes out his boys scout tin opener and prepares for ritual brain surgery...
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#232271 - 03/04/06 10:53 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Kimpatsu]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think that different forums have different feels...and attract different members.

For example, other forums that you post at have a more 'Japanese' feel, and I think appeal to the SK crowd more.

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#232272 - 03/04/06 07:26 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: trevek]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Apart from the "feel" of a Japanese enthusiasts' forum, Shorinji's roots are a heck of a lot closer to Chinese MA. Surely the name Shorinji (ShaoLin) Kempo (quanfa) is a clear indication???? Or do I need to point people to the bskf and wsko websites????

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#232273 - 03/05/06 04:21 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Apart from the "feel" of a Japanese enthusiasts' forum, Shorinji's roots are a heck of a lot closer to Chinese MA. Surely the name Shorinji (ShaoLin) Kempo (quanfa) is a clear indication???? Or do I need to point people to the bskf and wsko websites????




SK has been so 'japanized' that it no longer wish to have or claim any 'root' connection to Shaolin Temple. Like BJJ ? If the argument is to be carried further and use only the name and or historicity of an art as the only guide, we should put karate itself on the Chinese MA Forum, for what was the original meaning of 'karate' ?


Edited by ButterflyPalm (03/05/06 04:26 AM)
_________________________
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#232274 - 03/05/06 07:09 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: ButterflyPalm]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
That may be true, and Shaolin may be the fountain head of most all East Asian martial arts, but that does not change the basic fact, irrespective of how much people choose to deny its existence.

This issue can be quite easily solved. Several forums already exist to cover the spectrum that is SK. Post your appropriate topic in whichever forum you feel closest meets the topic in question.

I don't think SK does anything so uniquely different that is not inherent in other arts. In fact, I know so. I have done some SK with Dr Andy Tan 4th dan, here at UQ St Lucia. A punch is a punch, a front kick is a front kick, a block is a block, a wrist lock is a wrist lock, Kongo Zen Buddhism is Zen Buddhism.

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#232275 - 03/06/06 09:33 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Brian....nice

about Shorinji kempo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorinji_Kempo
"It could be seen as a combination of Karate, Judo, Aikijujutsu built on a Kung Fu framework, except that this art has no killing moves because of its respect for life. It is a form of Kempo that tries to get its practitioners to move through life doing minimal damage whenever possible."

Whoever wrote that must be Kenshi who doesnt realize that ALL Kempo is for avoiding/ending conflict as soon as possible with the minimum amount of force to do so. similarly, all Karate has respect for life and all Martial systems have killing moves; in a fight for your life, one person might die. during that struggle, are you going to be worrying about only using non-lethal techniques to save your own life?
Shorinji Kempo is what happens when the philosphy is sounder than the reality. 'non-killing moves'...great philosophy...but not reality. IMO. bad guys aren't as equally co-operative in that philosophy. so...it's ok to kill when absolutely necessary, but you don't train how to: doesn't make sense. not teaching something is a guarentee the person won't be able to use it, so it's a self-fulfilling philosophy.

The interesting spin on Shorinji kempo is that it is neither sport nor self-defense. althought they have competitions, it isn't one vs. one with points or submissions. it's more a grading of the choreography of the match. the competitors are cooperating with each other to make the overall match look better. similar to what Karate does during demonstrations and exhibitions. it's about harmonizing, but reality is messy.

maybe create a forum called "Cooperative Arts" or "Mixed Martial Philosophy" ? I find it particularly interesting that a practioner of an Art that promotes peaceful resolution, is going around forums on the net stiring things up with this issue, when clearly the peaceful way would be to live and let live and start your own forum.
or here is another peaceful option: don't use the forums at all and just train.

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#232276 - 03/08/06 11:11 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Ed_Morris]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I think, as a Kempo practitioner (although not Shaolin or whatever you want to call it) you should just post where you feel where approriate and just STFU.....I mean are we going to get all the Okinawian Karate saying that the Japanese stuff is twaddle and demand their own forum? Likewise can we see a rebel Japanese sect break off and demand a japanese "karate" forum. Lets put things into perspective Shorinji guys....you do gyakazuki, mawashi geri, jodan uke, you kata's have the same sodding names as karate.....thats where you're going to get the best discussions on what you do...I always make the distinction between Karate and Kempo, but at the end of the day the purpose of an online discussion forum is dicussion....lets give you a Shorinji forum and watch the tumble weed casually wander through......stick with Karate froum and discuss things with like minded martial artists....or if you feel slightly more chinese talk in that forum....easy ain't it!!!!
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www.SHIKON.COM
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#232277 - 03/08/06 02:25 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Gavin]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
*stealthily swaps Gavin's regular coffee for decaf*
_________________________
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#232278 - 03/09/06 03:59 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Gavin]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

....easy ain't it!!!!




Like do you put the salt or pepper first?

I always put the pepper first, what about you?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#232279 - 03/09/06 06:47 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Always pepper first....I thought it was kind of an unwrittern rule!

Matt can we have a forum for MA's who use pepper first? Just to seperate us from the weirdo's who use salt first.
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www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#232280 - 03/09/06 06:50 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Gavin]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Pepper first, definitely.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#232281 - 03/09/06 07:08 AM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Taison]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Cool....help me lobby Matt for our own forum then!!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#232282 - 03/09/06 04:55 PM Re: Shorinji Kempo [Re: Taison]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
so do you all a-salt first, or defend? Or are you all pepper tigers?

Maybe it depends on the season.


Edited by trevek (03/09/06 04:57 PM)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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