FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 33 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
AndyLA 5
Dobbersky 5
Ed_Morris 4
ergees 3
futsaowingchun 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#231247 - 02/15/06 08:47 PM Boffering, safe sword fighting.
KarlHTKDSTUDENT Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
Boffering. I love it almost as much as Tae Kwon Do. I don't do any sword arts, but boffering is thge sport of reinacting medieval sword fighting in a (almost) totally safe and fun manner. You can make one for less than $10 dollars that will last you a long time. The whole idea of boffering is to fight with swords, but not to pad yourself, but to pad the sword. They are constructed from PVC, pool noodles/pipe insulation, and you can use other materials, and duct tape. My friends and I have so much fun doing it. If you want more information PM me.
-Karl
_________________________
A true warrior wins the battle before it begins.

Top
#231248 - 02/15/06 09:14 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: KarlHTKDSTUDENT]
Yunsung Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 111
Loc: Bossier City, LA, USA
www.thearma.org

This is real medieval swordfighting - Liectenhauer and Fiore longsword, primarily.

If you're going to practice medieval swordsmanship, do it right.
_________________________
Justice is only useful when power is useless.-Socrates, the Republic

Top
#231249 - 02/15/06 09:18 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Yunsung]
KarlHTKDSTUDENT Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
Except I'm fourteen and I don't want to spend a bunch of money of weapons and armor, and besides that, I can do boffering in my basement, and I won't have to worry too much about accidently hurting someone.
-Karl
_________________________
A true warrior wins the battle before it begins.

Top
#231250 - 02/15/06 09:52 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: KarlHTKDSTUDENT]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Boffering. I love it almost as much as Tae Kwon Do. I don't do any sword arts, but boffering is thge sport of reinacting medieval sword fighting in a (almost) totally safe and fun manner. You can make one for less than $10 dollars that will last you a long time. The whole idea of boffering is to fight with swords, but not to pad yourself, but to pad the sword. They are constructed from PVC, pool noodles/pipe insulation, and you can use other materials, and duct tape. My friends and I have so much fun doing it. If you want more information PM me.
-Karl




I will admit it looks like a lot of fun, but it's not swordsmanship on any level and should not be confused with such.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231251 - 02/16/06 06:50 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: KarlHTKDSTUDENT]
mercierarmory Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
Just because your 14 isn't an excuse not to learn how to properly swordfight, even with your boffer weapons. No, they dont feel, swing, weigh or look like real swords, but you can still learn proper technique with one.
If you are really interested, go look for books by, Guy Windsor, John Clements, or Christian Tobler. They all have written excellent books to learn historical fight techniques.
My school has access to a lot of their books. You can check them out at: http://www.mercierarmory.com/armory/books.html

Mike

Top
#231252 - 02/16/06 01:40 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: mercierarmory]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
You can't learn from books anymore than you can from videos, at least, not alone. You need a solid background and a good teacher to really learn anything. A group of people with a solid background in another art can learn together (as Mercier's group is doing), but alone, you are still just hitting people with sticks.

If you want to learn, I would suggest that you pick up fencing; go to ARMA or another group of the sort (avoid the SCA); or perhaps learn kenjitsu, kendo, or iaido.

But, don't let old fogeys like us ruin your fun. If you just want to have fun, go swing at each other to your heart's desire.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

Top
#231253 - 02/16/06 03:12 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
VladtheImpaler Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 5
Quote:

Quote:

Boffering. I love it almost as much as Tae Kwon Do. I don't do any sword arts, but boffering is thge sport of reinacting medieval sword fighting in a (almost) totally safe and fun manner. You can make one for less than $10 dollars that will last you a long time. The whole idea of boffering is to fight with swords, but not to pad yourself, but to pad the sword. They are constructed from PVC, pool noodles/pipe insulation, and you can use other materials, and duct tape. My friends and I have so much fun doing it. If you want more information PM me.
-Karl




I will admit it looks like a lot of fun, but it's not swordsmanship on any level and should not be confused with such.




I used to do a lot of boffer fighting in my medieval group (Society for Creative Anachronism.) Sure, there are some people that do it that aren't very good, but to say it's not swordsmanship on any level is incorrect and disrespectful. I have fought and trained with many people with boffer and rattan weapons that were excellent fighters and could easily hold their own against practioners of other sword-fighting arts. Many of the people that fight and teach fighting in the SCA are trained in classical European swordfighting, and although boffer fighting is much different than wielding an edged weapon, don't discount it as meaningless.

Top
#231254 - 02/16/06 03:34 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VladtheImpaler]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I didn't say anything at all about the SCA, and I didn't say that Boffer fighting was meaningless. In fact, I said it looked like a lot of fun. All I said is that it is not Swordsmanship on any level. It does not involve swords, or objects that look like, are weighted like, or behave anything like swords. And it does not train you how to use the real thing. It's boffering. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. It's just not swordsmanship.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231255 - 02/16/06 03:53 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
VladtheImpaler Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 5
I think that part of the problem is that we are operating from different definitions of swordsmanship. I see boffer fighting as an opportunity to practice swordfighting in a safe environment with minimal chance of injury. I prefer the rattan weapons because it's a more accurate simulation of real swords, however I think you can still get a lot out of boffer if done correctly. It's especially good for newbies, younger fighters, and anyone else that's worried about getting injured.
And as to the similarity to real swords, I always try to make my boffer or rattan weapons as similar to real swords as I can in terms of weight and size, but I acknowledge that there is a difference. The only thing that will completely function like a real sword is a real sword, and we're not going to swing those at each other several days of the week, are we?

Top
#231256 - 02/16/06 03:58 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VladtheImpaler]
KarlHTKDSTUDENT Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
When I posted this I didn't mean to tell you guys that boffering is able to replace traditional sword arts, it's just a way for people to do sword fighting safely and have a bunch of fun doing it. Sure the swords may not look realistic but I don't care, it's still a hell of a lot of fun.
-Karl
_________________________
A true warrior wins the battle before it begins.

Top
#231257 - 02/16/06 04:10 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VladtheImpaler]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

The only thing that will completely function like a real sword is a real sword, and we're not going to swing those at each other several days of the week, are we?




That's what I use 8 to 9 hours a week in class.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231258 - 02/16/06 04:19 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: KarlHTKDSTUDENT]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Karl

Fun is fun, and I an glad that you have found something you enjoy.

But its not much good for learning sword arts.

Not bagging on you or your practice--like I said, glad you found something that you enjoy.

Its just not a good way to learn sword skills.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231259 - 02/16/06 05:44 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VladtheImpaler]
Yunsung Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 111
Loc: Bossier City, LA, USA
Quote:



I used to do a lot of boffer fighting in my medieval group (Society for Creative Anachronism.) Sure, there are some people that do it that aren't very good, but to say it's not swordsmanship on any level is incorrect and disrespectful. I have fought and trained with many people with boffer and rattan weapons that were excellent fighters and could easily hold their own against practioners of other sword-fighting arts. Many of the people that fight and teach fighting in the SCA are trained in classical European swordfighting, and although boffer fighting is much different than wielding an edged weapon, don't discount it as meaningless.




I'm sure they do quite well against other SCA practicioners. But exactly what classical European art are their leaders studying? I don't believe they've studied I.33, which is the primary source for sword and shield fighting. Nor have they studied Liectenhauer or Fiore di Liberi (even though there are very few longsword practicioners among their ranks). The SCA members I have spoken to tend to rehash the old myth of strength and heavy swords winning the day, even though this is clearly not the case. The SCA tends to focus mainly on recreating certain aspects of medieval culture, unfortunately, for the most part this re-creation does not extend to the martial aspects. The best quote on the SCA comes from John Clements, and it is simply put - "The SCA is what it is."

It is not accurate training in medieval swordsmanship, and the more intelligent members don't claim it to be such.

The SCA group in my area practices the art of smacking cardboard shields with rattan - as talented at it as they are, it's not swordsmanship.


Edited by Yunsung (02/16/06 05:47 PM)
_________________________
Justice is only useful when power is useless.-Socrates, the Republic

Top
#231260 - 02/16/06 05:57 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VladtheImpaler]
SethWoodworth Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Washington, USA
Quote:

I prefer the rattan weapons because it's a more accurate simulation of real swords, however I think you can still get a lot out of boffer if done correctly.
And as to the similarity to real swords, I always try to make my boffer or rattan weapons as similar to real swords as I can in terms of weight and size, but I acknowledge that there is a difference. The only thing that will completely function like a real sword is a real sword, and we're not going to swing those at each other several days of the week, are we?




Yes, I do swing a sword several times a week.

Rattan and boffer bounce when they strike each other, that's why SCA combat is different from Western Martial Arts, although there can be some cross over.

A *real* sword should have a taper in width and a distal taper. So while your rattan might weigh the same as a real sword the same length, it doesn't have the same 'moment of inertia' as the real thing. And moment of inertia is a very important concept.
_________________________
All the best, Seth Woodworth

Top
#231261 - 02/16/06 08:54 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: SethWoodworth]
KarlHTKDSTUDENT Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
for all of you who say it's no way to learn a sword art, it isn't. I never said to quit your current practice and do this, in fact I don't even use boffering to train in a sword art. The only thing I use boffer swords for is to get a couple of friends over in my basement and beat each other up. In no way does it represent realistic combat, there is just not enough similarities between a boffer and a real sword. Im just saying it's alot of fun and that it's an easy thing to do if you wanted to try.
-Karl
_________________________
A true warrior wins the battle before it begins.

Top
#231262 - 02/17/06 03:30 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: KarlHTKDSTUDENT]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
Karl,

Great you and your friends have found something fun to do and don't pay any attention to those here who see it differently. You came here in good cheer to share, and have been treated poorly. I don't know why people do that.

But, if your life is long, there will be many times that you'll see people belittle others for no reason. This could be a good lesson to you about not doing so yourself.

Top
#231263 - 02/17/06 08:19 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Joss]
mercierarmory Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
You have it wrong Joss.

We are not here to rain on his parade and tell him to do stop doing something he enjoys. What we are saying is that what he is doing is not swordfighting. We are trying to help lead him on a path to learn historical technique and put his passion to use. Boffer fighting is basically a harmless way to beat eachother up. There is no "martial art" involved and thats one reason it puts such a bad taste in peoples mouths and is made fun of in some circles. We were trying to show him that there are plenty of avenues to take if he wants to further his interest in western martial arts.

Mike

Top
#231264 - 02/18/06 02:53 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: mercierarmory]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
*Grabs mercier, Joss, Charles, Karl, and Vlad

Sways back and forth, singing "Kum-ba-yah!!"

Hits them all with a boffer and runs off.*

_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#231265 - 02/18/06 04:14 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: JoelM]
SethWoodworth Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Washington, USA
I was quoting Vlad I think. I have nothing against boffer for the sake of boffer. Heck, I think I might still have a half dozen or so boffers sitting round somewhere. It's fun!
_________________________
All the best, Seth Woodworth

Top
#231266 - 02/24/06 01:37 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Well if you can afford good armor and a little control there's just no reason not to use metal blunts. The simple fact is that no matter how well balanced a simulator is it just isn't going to represent live steel correctly. The only way to really practice authentically is to get a metal sword in your hands.

Top
#231267 - 04/04/06 02:29 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Subedei]
VerneyEsq Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1
I'm not sure if those advocating live steel have considered the limited means of teens. Two years ago when I was 14 there was know whay I could get even a portion of the things required to do live steel. Much less convince my friends to do so. And what would my perants think about this "waste" of money?

It hasn't changed much now I'm 16.

Karl, I'm actually gearing up to launch a boffering group with some friends. And guys, the cheapness and safety of it has drawn them not to mention the fun we'll have but also it means more people for us to bash. I always wanted a big battle.


Top
#231268 - 04/04/06 10:07 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: VerneyEsq]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Does anyone care to make a case for whether or not Boffer topics belong in the sword arts forum? I am inclined to move them to another forum.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231269 - 04/04/06 10:30 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Charles

Since we don't have a paintball forum, and in my view "boffering" is in the same catagory of "fun but useless for any real skill bldg" I don't know where we should put it.

I don't think it belongs in the sword section----but maybe it will help people to read the various opinions.

I honestly don't know.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231270 - 04/04/06 10:34 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
I agree the thread should be moved out of the sword arts forum. Boffering and boffers is like the anime reverse blade sword. Both having nothing to do with sword arts and swordsmanship.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

Top
#231271 - 04/07/06 11:35 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Walter Wong]
mercierarmory Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
I have to disagree. As the topic stated he mentioned "safe sword fighting".
Now there isnt any historical value to much boffer fighting, but it was meant to recreate it, just not in an authentic way. When it was created some 40 years ago or so, its all they had. There were no interpretive translations of manuals like Fiore, Talhoffer, or I.33.

VerneyEsq -as a so called steel "advocate" I certainly can understand the limited means. I also never suggest anyone picks up a steel sword and attempts to fight with it without having some sort of training, either western or eastern martial arts.
Although sometimes hard to find, there are plenty of Western schools available across the country now. If someone is truely interested in medieval history and fighting, I would suggest finding one of those instead of creating bad habits blindly swinging a sword simulator around. It may look easy in the movies, but that is all show and the sword styles of Europe are no less of a martial art than the Asian styles therefore require a lot of time, patience, and training.

Mike

Top
#231272 - 04/08/06 03:15 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: mercierarmory]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I kinda agree with Mercier. Boffering is not really akin to Sakabato, Santo Ryu, and other assorted goofiness. But I am still unconvinced it has any business in the Sword Arts forum, as it is clearly not a sword art, nor is it tied to any sword art western or eastern. It strikes me as being in a seperate class of activities. Maybe the same class that the Forza/kenbo stuff falls in. Which doesn't belong here either really.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231273 - 01/05/09 03:21 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
Hey. im new here, just registered, just soi could post in this forum. While i agree most boffering isnt realistic enough t be considered sword art or sword fighting, my group gets its weapons from an online place, called Calimacil. Almost every one of their weapons are made to look, and feel like a real sword. They are used by a Martial Arts Dojo for real practice with their training. We use these weapons, and train in European Fighting styles, as well as others. The weapons are weighted like a real sword, look like it, even down to the sewn up leather handle. The only problem i have with them is that the crossgaurd is a bit flimsy. They are strong, ive seen someone that weighs round 200 lbs, put this across 2 bars and stand on it.

Here is the site for Calimacil

http://www.latex-weaponry.com/calimacil.html

Then the ones that i personally own is at this site.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cf...albumId=2245211

Top
#231274 - 01/05/09 07:50 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Cole, What dojo uses these?
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231275 - 01/05/09 04:04 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Cole

See the problem here is one of basic physics and materials science.

Something that, as you say, "weighted just like a real sword" is going to be plenty dangerous---its a question of density--something that the same and is the same size/mass is likely not something your going to want to get hit with.

A pound of feathers and a pound of iron "weigh" the same...but their density is vastly different...to get something the same size/mass and weight as metal its going to have to be nearly as dense....which means that its going to be kinda dangerous.

There are some materials out there with some really odd properties...but nobody I know is making them in large enough quantiies to make much of them...certainly not boffers.

That may of course not be anything new to you......just mentioning it.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231276 - 01/06/09 12:40 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: cxt]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
This is the video test that they show, unfortunatly its in french, i think, but you can get the basics of it from the video.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=6uAFLC7KjiY

This is the Dojo's Website, its the Austin Bujinkan Tanemaki Dojo

http://knifeonthewater.com/table_of_contents.htm

Here is the part of the Dojo's site that talks about the weapons.

http://www.knifeonthewater.com/Knighthawk.htm

And yes cxt i understand about density, im actually a major in physics and thats something we deal with alot in my classes, and these weapons are weighted the same as a real sword, as i have already said, and when you get the swords they actually have a manual with them that say that they can very easily hurt someone, to not hit people in the face, to not do full force blows, etc, but we mostly do it anyway. We have had several broken bones, i myself broke 2 fingers in my hand, got my wrist dislocated, got a concussion, so i can attest that they hurt for real. And i will also admit, that there is no alternative to the real thing, but these weapons are the closest as i have found to it and we have been able to train just fine with them. We actually got police called on us several times cause people thought we were actually using swords. After a few hours of long talks with the police, we ended up being able to continue training.

The swords are made with a fiber glass rod reinforced with a carbon fiber tube. The longer greatsword that are made with pvc always had a problem with whiping, but my friend bought one of theyre greatswords, and it doesnt whip in the slightest. They are created by injection processing, the entire weapon is essentially a single unit. There are no layers of primer, latex, paint, or sealant. They are expensive, mine cost $139 But the site doesnt charge shipping. I own an authentic medieval sword, and the weight is almost the same, and so it the balance. Again, i will admit that a real sword is obviously more real, but these are damn good and are the best alternative i have found, and ive looked for years. Ive had mine for about two and a half years, and there has been no wear n tear on it at all. The paint is the same as when i took it out of the box, there is a bit a dirt on it cause i havent cleaned it in a while, but otherwise its in the same condition as it was when i got it.


Edited by Cole_Caecus (01/06/09 12:45 AM)

Top
#231277 - 01/06/09 01:11 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I'm out of the loop on this one...could someone explain what boffering is?

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

Top
#231278 - 01/06/09 09:02 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Ames]
Halley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 126
Quote:

We have had several broken bones, i myself broke 2 fingers in my hand, got my wrist dislocated, got a concussion, so i can attest that they hurt for real.




Run, run for your life. Preferably in the direction of a lawyer. This isn't a dojo, it's a fight club. Any dojo that has this safety record gives the entire world of martial arts a bad name.

Top
#231279 - 01/06/09 03:36 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Cole

Cool, didn't know you were a physics major......I was just worried that people might ge jacking around with stuff they didn't fully understand were dangerous......we get a lot of people reading this site and there is no-way to tell whom is reading what and what their background might be.

Since the topic was "safe sword fighting" I was a bit worried that people that didn't know etc might be might get confusd and think the weapons your talking about were "safe."

Safety first and all.


Edited by cxt (01/06/09 03:39 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231280 - 01/07/09 10:43 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Thanks for the dojo reference. That explains much. Just how much do these things weigh? A good Japanese katana will weigh anywhere from 800 grams to 1400 grams. That's to say anywhere around 2 to 3 pounds. I have trouble imaginging anything made with a pvc, fiberglass, or carbon fiber core and latex coating weighing anywhere near as much and still approaching the same form as a real sword. The densities of the materials just don't allow it.

BTW, you may not be aware of it, but there is a good Araki Ryu dojo in Austin, and I seem to recall a Yagyu Shinkage Ryu dojo as well.


Edited by Charles Mahan (01/07/09 10:44 AM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231281 - 01/07/09 06:08 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
Im not personally in this dojo, i dont live anywhere near austin. As for the weight of the weapons, i dont have a scale or anything, but it feels about the same as my real sword, but thats just feeling it though. The foam on the sword its fairly dense, toward the inside it gets more solid, and more dense, then towards the outside it gets softer. And we are mostly safe, after the broken bones we instituted some rules, like wearing a cup, some kind of helmet to protect our head, and maybe heavy clothes. Again, me and my group are not a part of that dojo, we dont have a website or anything. But i have gotten better at this so i dont break any bones any more, i have stopped wearing the helmet again, and so far so good, except for the first day i got stabbed in the eye with a very nasty thrust at me as i was falling. But after that im doin great! Im just stubborn when it comes to that.

Top
#231282 - 01/08/09 10:02 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Halley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 126
Quote:

But i have gotten better at this so i dont break any bones any more, i have stopped wearing the helmet again, and so far so good, except for the first day i got stabbed in the eye with a very nasty thrust at me as i was falling.




Two words. "Darwin Award."

Top
#231283 - 01/08/09 10:26 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Halley]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
Well, as darwin as it may be, i enjoy the fighting, and learning to not get hit as much and not get hurt is a good accomplishment to me. Even though it hurts, i learn from it.

Top
#231284 - 01/10/09 10:05 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Why not do it for real? There is probably real training in available in your area?
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231285 - 01/12/09 06:43 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
That type of training, at least in my area, costs money per month, and being a college student in my own appartment, cant afford to go pay 80 -150 a month for that kind of thing, not even counting the equipment. Which also needs to be maintained. I prefer this to the 'real' thing, because i can get hit with it and feel it well without (Usually) much injury, and not have to wear padding or armor or the like. It also costs much less in the money department. I was, when i first started boffering, using the pvc pipe ones that are usually used, and was to say the least dubious of using the newer weapons as they cost more money, but they done break or need repaired as the pvc ones do. And the 'real' ones in my area arent exactly in my area, more like 1.5 hours away.

Top
#231286 - 01/20/09 12:58 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Cole

Sorry to drop back in so late......on the road...noe e-mail.

But just in case your still about.

Since its the "cost" of training that is bothering you...and it should, lessons are sometimes expensive.

Think how much a injury is going to cost you. ........you may not be the guy paying the insurence bill...but SOMEBODY is......you have mentioend injury prior..someot pretty serious.

Sounds like the proper training might be less expensive in the longer run......there used to be saying about being penny wise and pound foolish.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231287 - 01/21/09 08:34 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
How sure are you that those training costs are correct? At our dojo college students only pay $50 a month. While $80 a month is not unheard of, I think it's on the high end of normal, and $150 is stratospheric. Most kendo and iai instructors aren't in it to make money so the dues are usually about what it takes to cover the bills and not much more.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231288 - 02/03/09 02:06 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
When i went to check it out thats what they said. Unless they changed it. It wasnt martial arts, it was "Europoean Sword School" or something like that. They charged a lot, and you had to buy 7 different swords, at least i think it was 7, and you had to buy some kind of armor, i think it was chainmail, and that was what they said for it. I believe the swords were a rapier, a foil, a longsword, a shortsword, a dagger/dirk, a Sabre, and i believe there was one more that i cant remember.

Top
#231289 - 02/06/09 10:35 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
By any chance were you purchasing these swords from the same people teaching the class?

As to whether or not these classes are worth $150, that's up to you to decide. If you let the free market decide what classes are worth, then I suspect the usual $50 to $80 range is a bit low, but then the free market isn't usually the driving force behind most of the folks into serious martial arts.

My understanding is that most of the serious western martial arts groups operated on a similar principle. Usually an obvious desire on the part of instructors to make money off their instruction is a red flag. Not necessarily a big red flag, but enough of one to make you look a little deeper to be sure nothing fishy is going on.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231290 - 02/07/09 03:49 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
We could purchase the swords from them or from elsewhere, but there arent a whole lotta places around here that sell the real thing as far as swords go, and if we bought them from the 'instructors' we could get them at a 'discount price' but i looked online for some a the swords, and they were charging about 40-60 more than i found them online after finding out what the shipping cost would be. That was one of the major decisions that made me not want to join them. And that is just about the only european sword school that i can find around here.

Top
#231291 - 02/07/09 09:33 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Are you anywhere near a college town? If you are, many colleges have fencing clubs. Even if they do not suit you or your interests, they could provide useful information about other local schools or clubs that do not get listed in the yellow pages.

In my own case, in 1993 I went to a local sporting goods store looking for a practice weapon. The owner knew a gentleman who was just starting to teach Iaido with his instructor's permission. He was sharing the use of a local Aikido studio. It worked out extremely well.

Good luck.


Edited by iaibear (02/07/09 09:55 AM)

Top
#231292 - 02/07/09 08:35 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: iaibear]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
You could also look up a local SCA group. The SCA folks make no squirly claims about legitmate links to European traditions, not that the group you mentioned does mind. They are for the most part good people. Most importantly they've got several decades of doing the sort of thing your doing, and doing it in a relatively safe fashion. Yes they will require you to wear certain pieces of protective gear. Gear that they have found to be absolutely necessary to the safe practice of the things they do.

Less than ideal perhaps, but better than going it alone if there are no other oppurtunities in your area.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231293 - 02/12/09 10:27 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
Meh, i just prefer my own group fighting. I'd rather do this than go to sca, which i have had problems with before because i dont enjoy dressing up in medievel clothes, except for armor. and the sca that was here wouldnt let me participate in anything unless i was dressed up, which is one of the same problems i have with Amtgard. I just wanted to point out that, while i will admit boffering is not the best for practicing sword fighting styles, or the like, if done correctly, it can be a very good alternative. That was the whole reason behind me joining and posting on here.

Top
#231294 - 02/16/09 03:02 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
That of course depends on your definition of "good alternative". Frequently this type of thread comes down to different definitions of "good alternatives". My own definition of good practice revolves around the teachings of my instructors. That is as it should be. The other posters here who have trained in one genuine sword art or another, base their defintions of good practices on their own instruction. Our experience is hard won.

As to your incompatibility with the SCA, that is your problem. If you cannot bring yourself to respect the traditions of the group you would like to train with enough to dress as their tradition says you should, then it is your failing not theirs. Of course, there is no reason you should have to train with anyone. If you're happy to fumble about on your own, then more power to you as long as you don't hurt anyone, and so long as you don't pretend to do anything other than what you are.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231295 - 02/17/09 03:39 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
So...in other words 'what your doing isnt sword fighting and never will be'? And i will admit that the not wanting to dress up part is my fault, as far as the SCA goes, but when i want to go boffer, i absolutly refuse to go to amtgard in the middle of town dressed in a bath robe (Wizard). I just dont think that people should have to dress up to go have fun doing this. But that of course is my personal opinion. And also, unless you have seen us fight, please dont insult us by saying we are 'fumbling around' or 'pretending to do anything other than what you are'. you havent seen us fight. We have people who have trained in the sca for many years who have joined us and taught us how to fight.

Top
#231296 - 02/17/09 04:37 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

So...in other words 'what your doing isnt sword fighting and never will be'?



Sorry, but that is absolutely correct. What you are doing may be great fun, good exercise, improve your reflexes, and teach you alot about strategy. However, when all is said and done, it is about sparring with foam weapons, not sword fighting. Since you cannot engage in actual sword duels, you haven't got the slightest idea how what you are doing would translate to using a real sword against an opponent that's trying to kill you.
This is, in fact, something that a couple of high profile western sword art instructors have complained about. They study the manuals that the old masters left and diligently practice and try to figure out just what the manuals were saying. However, in the end they just aren't sure that they've got it right. No way to really find out any more.
However, they have the advantage in that they are diligently studying methods and techniques that were assembled when swords were actually in use. This is the advantage that the Japanese sword arts have is that the existing schools have been passed down from teacher to student from when swords were actually in use. Stuff that you are inventing today for your sparring sessions has no connection at all with real swords so it's really a stretch of logic to try and tell yourself that they are tied together, and that you're "sword fighting".

It's like comparing UFC fighting to a gang fight in the streets. Superficially they are the same, but in reality they are totally different things.
_________________________
Paul

Top
#231297 - 02/18/09 02:06 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: pgsmith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Cole. I'm sorry, but what you are doing does qualify as fumbling about. You are not actively engaged in training under anyone unless I've missed something. You have a stick and you hit people with it and try to get a little better the more often you do it. That's a pretty good description of fumbling about.

So far as I can tell you are not pretending to do anything other than what you are. Good for you. Not everyone who does what you do are so honest about it. Many swear that they are practicing some ancient art or other, despite having no actual connections to any such art. That's just dishonest. So long as you are not doing that, and it appears that you are not, and so long as nobody gets hurt, then I don't have any real problem with what you are doing. I don't understand it.

As to whether or not you like Amtgard or SCA, that is your business. Don't workout with them. End of problem. Don't expect to join a traditional Japanese dojo, or even a respected WMA group, without being asked to dress in period clothing. It's not going to happen. Again, so long as you are satisfied with what you are doing, then knock yourself out. Just don't expect anyone who is training for real to take you too seriously.


Edited by Charles Mahan (02/18/09 02:07 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231298 - 02/22/09 05:04 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
While i respect your opinions, i disagree. As ive said, we have several people that were in the SCA for years that are teaching us proper techniques, and i myself have done a lot of research into it online, using many things i have found online to teach myself. And while you are correct, we wont have the ability to learn under life and death circumstances, as far as i know, not many people have that 'oppurtunity'. We also have done some training with Bokkens, both katana type and longsword types, and our group is very good. Im confident that if i had a real sword, i would do better with most, but thats just me, and its not likely to happen, so i wont find out for sure under real circumstances.

Top
#231299 - 02/22/09 08:29 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Cole_Caecus]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
My friend R__ was invited to train for one of these things (never been to one) and day before takes me up on some technique as I was lending him my shinai (one day, gad), I gave him a sure winner as I assumed he might face hack and slashers, a modification of Gedan no Kamae w/ rt leg rear and sword rt low, I was uke and as I moved to strike he stepped rt leg and Jabbed Abd, finish w/ beheading...worked like a charm, except the group said Jabs were off limits and the immediate move to behead was not looked upon well. if this is common in "Boffering" than training must be more for great swords like the Claymore than Katana, good check of this is "do you practice sword clashing sword more than once in a combat?"
_________________________
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

Top
#231300 - 02/22/09 06:43 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: karl314285]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

And while you are correct, we wont have the ability to learn under life and death circumstances, as far as i know, not many people have that 'oppurtunity'.




That is of course correct, and the reason many of us choose to seek out genuine instruction which has been passed down from one generation to the next from a time when people did use this stuff for what it was designed for.

Why make it up if you can't ever know what you're doing is worth a damn? Why not find the real thing and do that? There may not be a training oppurtunity in your immediate area. You might even have to move to somewhere training is available. It all comes down to just how badly you want it.

To my way of thinking making it up as you go, does not qualify what you are doing as a sword art, and as such it does not qualify as a valid topic for discussion in this forum. That doesn't mean you don't find some kind of value in what you're doing. If nothing else, it sounds like a good cardio workout. Still that doesn't qualify it as a sword art. This is a topic which I am starting to think should be banned from this forum. I am curious to hear what the other forum regulars have to say about this? It's similar to the self teaching topic, which is already banned.


Edited by Charles Mahan (02/22/09 06:45 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231301 - 02/22/09 11:43 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
While I don't know whether or not I can be considered a "regular" I agree that boffering and the like isn't really a sword art. It is more or less a sword fighting game to me. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they are like apples and oranges when compared to each other.

That being said I don't think it should be a banned topic because it is not necessarily a bad thing to partake in these events while banned topics such as self-teaching is.
Plus, would chanbara be also a banned topic? Also, I feel there would have to be a sticky for guidelines as to what exactly qualifies as a sword art and what can be posted.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

Top
#231302 - 02/24/09 09:15 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: fatguy]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
To be clear, when I suggest the topic should be banned, I don't mean it should be banned as a dangerous or illegitimate practice. Just that it seems out of scope for this forum as it is not a sword art. We don't allow other forms of off topic discussion. Those posts get moved to other forums or deleted.

So the question becomes, is boffering a valid topic for discussion in the Sword Arts forum. This would cover topics related to all topics related to boffering, including Chanbara, Amtgard, Dagohir, and unaffiliated backyard samurai.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#231303 - 02/24/09 09:55 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
oh, sorry I believe I misunderstood.

In that case, I'm all for a ban.


Edited by fatguy (02/24/09 09:55 AM)
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

Top
#231304 - 02/24/09 04:07 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Charles

Ban is ok with me....might save a lot of time.

Then again, perhaps such discussions serve "some" value in the education of folks that don't know the differences.

I don't know.

BTW......."uaffilated backyard samurai"......excellent choice of words!
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#231305 - 02/25/09 02:43 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: cxt]
Cole_Caecus Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 11
Meh, go ahead, i just joined to put my 2 cents in about the subject anyways.

Top
#231306 - 02/25/09 11:37 AM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: Charles Mahan]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
I agree that discussions of this sort are technically out of the scope of this forum. However, I don't think they should be simply banned. It provides an opportunity for discussion that may be of benefit to some. Not too much other discussion going on in this forum at the moment .
_________________________
Paul

Top
#231307 - 02/26/09 04:52 PM Re: Boffering, safe sword fighting. [Re: pgsmith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
That's a good point Paul. Perhaps there is value in discussing what is not a Sword Art in the Sword Arts forum. I hadn't thought of it in those terms before.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga