I'm not sure if those advocating live steel have considered the limited means of teens. Two years ago when I was 14 there was know whay I could get even a portion of the things required to do live steel. Much less convince my friends to do so. And what would my perants think about this "waste" of money?

It hasn't changed much now I'm 16.

Karl, I'm actually gearing up to launch a boffering group with some friends. And guys, the cheapness and safety of it has drawn them not to mention the fun we'll have but also it means more people for us to bash. I always wanted a big battle.

Does anyone care to make a case for whether or not Boffer topics belong in the sword arts forum? I am inclined to move them to another forum.

Charles

Since we don't have a paintball forum, and in my view "boffering" is in the same catagory of "fun but useless for any real skill bldg" I don't know where we should put it.

I don't think it belongs in the sword section----but maybe it will help people to read the various opinions.

I honestly don't know.

I agree the thread should be moved out of the sword arts forum. Boffering and boffers is like the anime reverse blade sword. Both having nothing to do with sword arts and swordsmanship.

I have to disagree. As the topic stated he mentioned "safe sword fighting".
Now there isnt any historical value to much boffer fighting, but it was meant to recreate it, just not in an authentic way. When it was created some 40 years ago or so, its all they had. There were no interpretive translations of manuals like Fiore, Talhoffer, or I.33.

VerneyEsq -as a so called steel "advocate" I certainly can understand the limited means. I also never suggest anyone picks up a steel sword and attempts to fight with it without having some sort of training, either western or eastern martial arts.
Although sometimes hard to find, there are plenty of Western schools available across the country now. If someone is truely interested in medieval history and fighting, I would suggest finding one of those instead of creating bad habits blindly swinging a sword simulator around. It may look easy in the movies, but that is all show and the sword styles of Europe are no less of a martial art than the Asian styles therefore require a lot of time, patience, and training.

Mike

I kinda agree with Mercier. Boffering is not really akin to Sakabato, Santo Ryu, and other assorted goofiness. But I am still unconvinced it has any business in the Sword Arts forum, as it is clearly not a sword art, nor is it tied to any sword art western or eastern. It strikes me as being in a seperate class of activities. Maybe the same class that the Forza/kenbo stuff falls in. Which doesn't belong here either really.

Hey. im new here, just registered, just soi could post in this forum. While i agree most boffering isnt realistic enough t be considered sword art or sword fighting, my group gets its weapons from an online place, called Calimacil. Almost every one of their weapons are made to look, and feel like a real sword. They are used by a Martial Arts Dojo for real practice with their training. We use these weapons, and train in European Fighting styles, as well as others. The weapons are weighted like a real sword, look like it, even down to the sewn up leather handle. The only problem i have with them is that the crossgaurd is a bit flimsy. They are strong, ive seen someone that weighs round 200 lbs, put this across 2 bars and stand on it.

Here is the site for Calimacil

http://www.latex-weaponry.com/calimacil.html

Then the ones that i personally own is at this site.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cf...albumId=2245211

Cole, What dojo uses these?

Cole

See the problem here is one of basic physics and materials science.

Something that, as you say, "weighted just like a real sword" is going to be plenty dangerous---its a question of density--something that the same and is the same size/mass is likely not something your going to want to get hit with.

A pound of feathers and a pound of iron "weigh" the same...but their density is vastly different...to get something the same size/mass and weight as metal its going to have to be nearly as dense....which means that its going to be kinda dangerous.

There are some materials out there with some really odd properties...but nobody I know is making them in large enough quantiies to make much of them...certainly not boffers.

That may of course not be anything new to you......just mentioning it.

This is the video test that they show, unfortunatly its in french, i think, but you can get the basics of it from the video.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=6uAFLC7KjiY

This is the Dojo's Website, its the Austin Bujinkan Tanemaki Dojo

http://knifeonthewater.com/table_of_contents.htm

Here is the part of the Dojo's site that talks about the weapons.

http://www.knifeonthewater.com/Knighthawk.htm

And yes cxt i understand about density, im actually a major in physics and thats something we deal with alot in my classes, and these weapons are weighted the same as a real sword, as i have already said, and when you get the swords they actually have a manual with them that say that they can very easily hurt someone, to not hit people in the face, to not do full force blows, etc, but we mostly do it anyway. We have had several broken bones, i myself broke 2 fingers in my hand, got my wrist dislocated, got a concussion, so i can attest that they hurt for real. And i will also admit, that there is no alternative to the real thing, but these weapons are the closest as i have found to it and we have been able to train just fine with them. We actually got police called on us several times cause people thought we were actually using swords. After a few hours of long talks with the police, we ended up being able to continue training.

The swords are made with a fiber glass rod reinforced with a carbon fiber tube. The longer greatsword that are made with pvc always had a problem with whiping, but my friend bought one of theyre greatswords, and it doesnt whip in the slightest. They are created by injection processing, the entire weapon is essentially a single unit. There are no layers of primer, latex, paint, or sealant. They are expensive, mine cost $139 But the site doesnt charge shipping. I own an authentic medieval sword, and the weight is almost the same, and so it the balance. Again, i will admit that a real sword is obviously more real, but these are damn good and are the best alternative i have found, and ive looked for years. Ive had mine for about two and a half years, and there has been no wear n tear on it at all. The paint is the same as when i took it out of the box, there is a bit a dirt on it cause i havent cleaned it in a while, but otherwise its in the same condition as it was when i got it.