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#229613 - 02/13/06 01:14 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Street_Poet]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

ya, from what i know kimura is from the guard, americana is from mount, and also side control.

**BUT the mechanics for each move is practically the same**




We learn this as one technique. We are taught to recognize it in any position. But as explained we don't use a lot of the names just the techniques are taught. We may have names we make up ourselves or passed down to make it easier. In this case then our Tree-Up would be the Americana and our Tree-Down would be the Kimura.
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#229614 - 02/13/06 02:56 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Dereck]
Street_Poet Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 140
Loc: Los Angeles
i think the kimura name should be used, since it has a story to it-
http://www.bjj.org/interviews/kimura/

it was named after Masahiko Kimura after he effectively submitted Helio Gracie (founding father of BJJ) with it.
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#229615 - 02/13/06 04:29 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Street_Poet]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

i think the kimura name should be used, since it has a story to it-
http://www.bjj.org/interviews/kimura/




I'm well aware of the Kimura and where the name came from. Howeve the system that we use it a lot to do with Korean and the word Tree-Up and Tree-Down were terms passed to my Instructor from his Master who is from South Korea who learned from his father who learned from his father, etc. This means far more to me with respect then the name Kimura from an individual that has no connection to me. I respect it but see no need to call it anything but what I'm taught.
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#229616 - 02/13/06 09:38 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Dereck]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Hey, Dereck, I was just wondering.

The techniques that you are taught, do they get English names or Korean? I've heard of striking techniques that are in Korean but never grappling techniques, so I was wondering.

I'm a firm believer in name as passed down, and I agree sometimes we have to give it a nickname so it doesn't get confusing. But I see it wrong as giving its nickname as its official name. E.g. Ippon seoi-nage = Ippon. Call it shoulder throw or something. I mean, it looks abit odd when the victor uses the Ippon and on the screen it says Technique used: "Ippon" *shakes head in disbelief*

-Taison out
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#229617 - 02/13/06 10:06 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Dereck]
azjudoaikijitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Mesa Az
Quote:

Don't know the official terms as you guys do. We don't get into the official names just the techniques. My favorite it the tree-up (or tree-down). This is also know as the Americana, Kumura or Paintbrush. Also like the RNC as well as any armbar.




I don't either I had to look them up

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#229618 - 02/14/06 01:24 AM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Taison]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Hey, Dereck, I was just wondering.

The techniques that you are taught, do they get English names or Korean? I've heard of striking techniques that are in Korean but never grappling techniques, so I was wondering.




All of the techniques we learn are in English. My Instructor does know some names in Korean as his Master is Korean and the grappling is from Hapkido. However when training with the US Marines and as well here in Canada to students, he translated everything to English or had terms in English that anybody could understand. Sometimes the official names are so confusing you can get lost in them.

For the techniques I talked about, his Master called it a Tree-Up as the arm and hand looks like the truck of a tree and the fingers are the branches. When the arm is up then that is a Tree-Up (or Americana). When the arm is pointed down it is a Tree-Down (or Kimura).

You have to remember this techniques was known far before it was ever named a Kimura (1951). Just because this move was renamed to Kimura did not mean that all people around the world that already practiced this should change the name of what they were doing.

The techniques in our system is the most important thing. The names are not important but if you want to know them they will be told to you ... or our Instructor may say them from time to time but remembering them is harder so we will make up our own names or say what they really are. This is a hip toss with blah blah. This is .... you get the point.
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#229619 - 02/14/06 10:01 AM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Dereck]
azjudoaikijitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Mesa Az
I totally agree, it doesnt matter what it's called, it's how well you do it. I learned it in AJJ, but it wasnt called kimura

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#229620 - 02/14/06 09:23 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Dereck]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I understand.

I'm having a bit of a problem remembering all the techniques in Japanese. Tree-down, I think it's called something like Origanami-gatame or something like that. I can only recall it begins with Ori and then ends with Gatame. Seems I have to go and do some research. Now I remember, it's called Ude Garami! Phew, now I got that off my chest. And the name just gets longer with each variation as you said, tree up, tree down, cross body, reverse, mount, etc. .

Anyway, I understand your point. It's quite difficult to teach foreigners in a foreign language, like in your case it wouldn't be suitable to teach the Korean names as the student would end up mixing them anyway.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#229621 - 02/14/06 09:30 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Taison]
Paranormalma Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 74
O Soto Gari (Major Outer Reap)
O Soto Guruma (Major Outer Wheel)
Ko Soto Gari (Minor Outer Reap)

If the first doesn't work, the second or third are always good to fall back on

Hadaka Jime(Rear Naked Choke)-still one of the best!

I've also been becoming vey fond of Shiho Gatame (Smother Hold). Sure, it's not likely to do damage on its own, but if done correctly it is a very effective holding technique that gives the user a lot of opportunities to do major damage

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#229622 - 02/14/06 11:57 PM Re: Your Favorite Technique [Re: Taison]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
When I started, I was facinated by Shiho Nage. After I learned it, I found very little use for it outside the JJJ/ Aikido syllabus though. I still love to watch it done at high levels.

Sankyo is on Traditional technique that I have found a lot of use for though. It is the one technique that gets people up on their feet. That would probably be my pick for favorite JJJ techniques.

For Judo, there is no question. Uchi Mata is by far my favorite technique.
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