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#229445 - 02/13/06 02:37 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: medulanet]
Salek Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/04
Posts: 474
Loc: Minnesota
Where can I get the book "The secrets of Shotokan Karate"?

Being an active member of a Shotokan Dojo I was just curious

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#229446 - 02/13/06 03:24 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Salek]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
You can get it on Amazon and the title is Shotokan's Secret: The Hidden Truth Behind Karate's Fighting Origins. I misstated the title in my other post. I highly recommend the book for its unique view on the history of karate, although I don't agree with his attempt to "fit" shotokan into karate's classical usage. Although there are some similarities to its classical roots some of his conclusions regarding techniques and usage don't fit for me, but a thought provoking work nonetheless.

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#229447 - 02/23/06 02:36 AM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: medulanet]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Going by Pat McCarthy Wandan or Wankan exemplifies the physical characteristic of Tomari-te, Naha-te and Shuri-te proving a relationship of these old methods.

You learn intricate hand and leg movement used for close combat, kneeing and grappling. Obviously an all out fight.

My question is in the double bent wrist movement (dog stance) what is it interpet as? I've heard of everything from a simple double block to a neck break/wrench.
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#229448 - 02/23/06 02:35 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Neko456]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I'm not sure what technique you are referring to. Please explain in detain this "dog stance." I haven't seen McCarthy's version.

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#229449 - 02/24/06 03:05 AM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: medulanet]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
In this version the kata ends with a double bent wrist position in a deep Kokutsu-dachi the ending results looks likes the end of Saniseru or Suparempei except for the use kokutsu dachi instead of shiko-dachi. This position is called the dog stance in some Naha systems.

I take it thats not how your Wankan ends, I know how different version can be. For example look at Shuri's Seisan and Naha's Seisan. What are the bunkias for this move?
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#229450 - 02/24/06 05:26 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Neko456]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Application I know is to dislocate opponents elbow.
Or one hand pulling an arm and the other hitting chin / temple / throath / neck area.
Double block on simultanous 2 arm attack.
Maybe a bit far stretched, you can block an arm upward with koken (wrist) then quickly, with first two fingers strike to the eyes like an uraken. I 've seen Shinpo Matayoshi and Kenjuy Chinen do it. It comes from a Hakutsuru kata from Gokenki.


Edited by CVV (02/24/06 05:27 PM)

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#229451 - 02/24/06 07:47 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Neko456]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
here's 1000 words:
http://www.karate.org.yu/images/shihokuken1.jpg

however, I prefer:
http://www.karate.org.yu/images/mantis%20bunkai.jpg

just went over this tonight (different setup than the pics, but you get the idea of the possibilities I assume).

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#229452 - 02/24/06 09:13 PM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Neko456]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Neko,

The kata Wandaun (Wandan) shown by Pat McCarthy is not Wankan (which is a separate kata). John Sells sells (no pun) a video showing Wando I think, very much the same kata as Wandaun. To my eye, it does contain techniques from the major Okinawan karate styles, making me wonder its age?

It is very interesting, but outside those sources (McCarthy and Sells) I'm unsure where else it is done.
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#229453 - 02/26/06 12:05 AM Re: Karate Conjecture - Wankan [Re: Victor Smith]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Victor you are right I was thrown both make reference to a king Wanduan "Ryukyu's Greatest fight king" obviously not the "protecting Kings the crown" my bad.

Thanks guys for the more info on use of the double crane technique.


Edited by Neko456 (02/26/06 12:29 AM)
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